Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 640 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Cashmere wrote:
I say that what we need now is a little home cooked patriotism, and not faux-patriotism through stick waving.
Bring 'em home - all of them. It's time for us to get the hell out of everybody's business and, instead, take care of our own business, which is in sore need of attention, and more so every day.
Hear, hear! Living too close to a ground zero installation, I have to concur (less than 15 miles from DSCR)!
I'm all for bringing everyone home during the next 8 years. Empty out our bases leaving nothing but old buildings and broken pavement. BTW, I'm willing to bet there would be a lot of howling "allies" when they realize what that means, but too bad! Bring them home!
The US has plenty of toys to make sure anyone who attacks us will die in a ball of hot plasma. Bring our men and women home, and then shutter the borders except for those legally entering the country for whatever reason. Then set up a sign that says "Screw with us at your peril."
The only military that should be outside our borders by 2016 is the submarine nuke forces, the navy paying visits to friendly ports, forces playing war games on friendly soil, and some airforce recon.
But it's all a dream. Not even the senator from Illinois will be willing/able to change what's coming, I fear. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
MadScientist wrote:
Bit of irony in your signature after reading that post Cash
There will be war. Think it through.
Of course there will be war. My post wasn't a statement of what we will do, my post was a statement of what we should do.
Of course I have no faith in my fellow parasites to make the right call. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
I hear this "stealth" technology makes planes invisible BS often. ALL aircraft flying through the air have a heat signature and can be detected. Engines are not the only source of heat from aircraft. Radar is WWII technology that made sense at that time and fancy coatings that absorb CERTAIN parts of the radio frequency band are not anywhere close to making aircraft invisible. This isn't Romulan cloaking.
"Stealth" planes are designed to be effective against obsolete radar detection systems used by 3rd world countries. So they are useful for keeping the colonies in line. Don't expect them to be effective on countries with more resources and technological/scientific development.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
So let me get this straight.... Russian military budget is $40 billion... US military budget is $548 billion (yeah, I know, war on terror... let's call it $400 even minus Iraq/Afghan)...
And you think these armed forces are even on the same playing field???
Both militaries are having huge portions of their arsenals hitting their "use by date" right about now, and the US is about to get busy replacing theirs. Do you think the Russians are going to afford to refresh their arsenal on $40 billion per year? Yes, the Russians are selling oil, but their economy is still only 1/7th the size of the US economy and much less of it is directed at their military. Meanwhile, the US makes up for inflation of oil prices by inflating the cost of food exports...
All that, plus, if nukes started flying, I would venture to guess that we could count the UK, France, Israel, and India as being in "our camp" while the Russians might be able to count on China... there is no way you could possibly see this equation as balanced.
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 990 Location: I have a whole ward
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Did you read about the Israeli strike on Syria? I read the strike penetrated the latest russian made air defences. The reason, there was not to much press and response from Syria after the strike was that it really unnerved the Russians that their systems could be penetrated so easily. _________________ Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.
Joined: Oct 23, 2005 Posts: 1851 Location: East of Eden
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Cashmere wrote:
The U.S. is not holding any cards any more.
Good analysis, Cash. I agree. The rest of the world is beginning to think beyond American hegemony, and we'd best also.
A powerful but aging and overweight boxer trying to keep his balance in the ring. Works for a while... _________________ "If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst." — Thomas Hardy
Joined: Jul 02, 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Canterbury, UK
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Viper wrote:
So let me get this straight.... Russian military budget is $40 billion... US military budget is $548 billion (yeah, I know, war on terror... let's call it $400 even minus Iraq/Afghan)...
And you think these armed forces are even on the same playing field???
Both militaries are having huge portions of their arsenals hitting their "use by date" right about now, and the US is about to get busy replacing theirs. Do you think the Russians are going to afford to refresh their arsenal on $40 billion per year? Yes, the Russians are selling oil, but their economy is still only 1/7th the size of the US economy and much less of it is directed at their military. Meanwhile, the US makes up for inflation of oil prices by inflating the cost of food exports...
All that, plus, if nukes started flying, I would venture to guess that we could count the UK, France, Israel, and India as being in "our camp" while the Russians might be able to count on China... there is no way you could possibly see this equation as balanced.
Wake up, sunshine! That might help for the first few days of war, then what? Imagine there are no WMDs used, no nukes; in a conventional war against a well drilled, well led and well equipped army like the Russian army, you can count on major casualty rates, a demoralized public opinion and the Chinese calling in the US mortgages. Most Middle East would probably shut the taps on oil as well - Iranians would probably make sure nothing went past the Straight of Ormuz. Europe would stand aside, to try and make sure some oil would get here, and the powerful US Army would, in a few days, be left with no money, fuel, support. War is won mostly on logistics, and less on battlefield. Failure to recognize this fact has been many general and political leader's last mistake in the past. _________________ Environmental News and Clippings:
http://www.google.co.uk/reader/shared/10279555364898696533
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Hey, deLarge, I see you think you will have a cakewalk in any war on Russia (just like Napoleon and Hitler). You can claim anything you want about what Syria possesses. If you knew what you were talking about then Syria would have some modern SAMs to take out those Israeli jets. Yet somehow they don't. So clearly your claims are more wishful thinking and the genetic belief in your racial superiority.
Landmark events don't always become the lead headlines, and Israel's air strike against an alleged Syrian nuclear facility last September is a good example. In the aftermath of the attack, global attention focused on Syria's nuclear aspirations, but the real watershed event was the execution of the air raid itself, which apparently now stands as the first implementation in a live hostile environment of 'information warfare'.
Quote:
The site, which comprised two radar systems and probably a mix of SAMs, was damaged and disabled with a mix of electronic attack and conventional PGMs, thus allowing the strike force to penetrate Syrian airspace without being engaged or even detected.
Then came the real surprise: immediately after the suppressive attack at Tall Abyad, Syria's entire air defence radar network crashed for a period of time long enough for the IAF to complete its mission and exit the way it entered – again without being detected electronically. This is no mean feat considering that Syria is widely regarded as having the densest and most comprehensive air defence system (ADS) in the region.
So... yes, they have SAMs and advanced Russian systems.
No one is saying that a war between the US and Russia would be a cake walk. No one is advocating a war between the two countries either. A whole mess of people on both sides would die, but unlike during the Cold War, the US would still exist after a war while Russia would not.
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 826 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Lets back up a little in history. Perhaps those countries of the prior Warsaw Pact don't want to be Russia play toy again. If so then they should be begging to join NATO, oh wait, they ARE! Europe will be wishing to strengthen NATO again soon. That Venezualan /Russia adventure indirectly affects Europe also. I see Sarkozi and the German leadership coming to America very soon or having long discussions with Obama/McCain.
By the way, Reagan played his chips and won. It's insane to think not playing the game will prevent Russia from doing as it wishes.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1764 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Iran, Pakistan may gain full membership in SCO
Foreign ministers of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) will decide on whether to lift a moratorium on bringing in new states at a meeting in Tajikistan on July 25, a Russian diplomat said on Friday.
"The moratorium has lasted for two years. We have now decided to consider the possibility of the SCO's enlargement," a source in the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
Iran and Pakistan, observer states at the SCO since 2005, have sought full membership in the regional bloc comprising Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan and widely seen as a counterweight to NATO's influence in Eurasia.
Joined: Jul 02, 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Canterbury, UK
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Viper wrote:
A whole mess of people on both sides would die, but unlike during the Cold War, the US would still exist after a war while Russia would not.
Wrong. Russia has fought much worse than the US can throw at it (conventional weaponry; no WMDs, I repeat) and always won. The US can't beat them in Russia and russians won't be so dumb they'll invade America. A couple more proxi wars, maybe? _________________ Environmental News and Clippings:
http://www.google.co.uk/reader/shared/10279555364898696533
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Viper wrote:
So let me get this straight.... Russian military budget is $40 billion... US military budget is $548 billion (yeah, I know, war on terror... let's call it $400 even minus Iraq/Afghan)...
And you think these armed forces are even on the same playing field???
Depends on how it's spent, doesn't it? If you're pissing $50,000 away per toilet seat (pun intended) to enrich some slimy creep, are you getting your money's worth? Relatedly, the US spends more than twice what Canada spends per patient, but Canadians live longer and our infant mortality rate is lower. Spending more, even a lot more, isn't necessarily spending smartly or even effectively. If you have 43 million people who aren't covered by medical insurance because you "can't afford" a national universal medicare system because you're spending it all on a military that still can't take on the Russians who are spending about 10% of what you are because that's all they have to spend to make attacking them untenable, just how well are you actually doing?
Viper wrote:
All that, plus, if nukes started flying, I would venture to guess that we could count the UK, France, Israel, and India as being in "our camp" while the Russians might be able to count on China... there is no way you could possibly see this equation as balanced.
You talk like you're eight years old, you really do. It's not just adding up figures and deciding the guy with the most Pokemon cards wins. How many bombs do you actually think it takes to destroy New York and the 10 million people or so living in and around it? Just fifty would remove nearly every US city of any significance enough for anyone outside the US to be able to name, leaving the millions who survive without material support or any real semblance of a nation or society. You're popping your buttons about impoverishing your country and limiting the potential of its people paying for things that can never be used, because if they are, it will likely spell the end of the human narrative on this planet. For God's sake, grow up. You're boasting about how exceedingly STUPID your country is these days.
What would happen if you matched the Russians at $40 B, and used that other $500 B for something else...? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Viper wrote:
but unlike during the Cold War, the US would still exist after a war while Russia would not.
This is the kind of vacuous stupidity that's likely to get us all killed one day. You're in a swimming pool and you think you're going to beat the guy at the other end cause you've got a bigger bag of piranhas to open than he does.
What do think happens when you loose 10,000, 15,000 nuclear weapons in the world? Do you think the radiation, the fallout, the billions of tons of material just stay where they are? Do you think Yankee nukes would be too smart or patriotic to rain eventual lethality down on Idaho, Missouri, Virginia? No major cities, scattered populations with no industry or outside help -- ever again -- crop failures, nuclear winter, radiation sickness, cancers, untreated pandemics, miscarriages, deformed children... do you really think there'd be a United States after that? Or even a human race after a handful of years? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
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