MOSCOW, July 24 (RIA Novosti) - Russian S-300 air-defense missile systems would enable Venezuela to fully ensure the security of its hydrocarbon resources, a Russian military expert said Thursday.
"Needless to say, should S-300s be delivered to Venezuela, they would effectively strengthen its defense capability, and it would not be easy for its possible adversaries to punish the country by striking at its oil fields," former Air Force commander Gen. Anatoly Kornukov said.
Link: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080724/114834367.html _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
The only threat the S-300's pose is to the US planes making bombing runs over Venezuela.
As for the sci-fi defence shield that every numbskull thinks will be 99% effective, it hasn't even succeeded with staged intercept tests. This means that the deployed system will rely on nuclear warheads to increase its intercept potential. Especially with the non-ballistic warheads that Russian ICBMs are being equipped with. So the ABM system is really a breach of the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces treaty. So don't expect the missile installations, radars and other ABM infrastructure to be safe from EXTREMELY rapid (e.g. 5 minutes) nuclear strikes. There is no shield, there is only a one-time exchange of nuclear missiles that will end the war as soon as it starts with EVERYONE that is involved the loser including all you Nazi-style pro-war drones who think you are safe on another continent.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1435 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
A New Cold War in the Caribbean?
Ever since the Monroe Doctrine, the U.S. has seen the Caribbean in the way that the Romans viewed the Mediterranean: Mare Nostrum, Our Sea. From the Spanish-American War through the Cuban missile crisis and the Central-American dirty wars of the Reagan era, Washington was always quick to flex its muscle over the rum-soaked waters that stretch from Florida to Venezuela. The bad news: it ain't our sea anymore, gringos.
Most Caribbean and Central American nations have now defied the Bush Administration's wishes and signed on to Chavez's regional energy cooperative, Petrocaribe. Started in 2006, Petrocaribe lets the basin's fuel-starved countries buy Venezuelan oil at just 40% of the current skyrocketing market price and pay back the difference over 25 years at 1% interest. Few Caribbean nations, struggling to juggle food and energy prices, can refuse Chavez's petro-diplomacy. His critics call it petro-bribery, using oil to broaden his fledgling anti-U.S. bloc in the hemisphere. But this month it won over Guatemala and Costa Rica to bring the number of Petrocaribe members to 19. And in U.S.-friendly countries that have so far balked at Chavez's deal, such as Barbados, the governments have taken heat from voters. Costa Rican President Oscar Arias was narrowly elected in 2006 by promising to keep Chavez's influence out of his Central American country. But last week, realizing that its oil expenditures have jumped 88% over the past year, he conceded that Costa Rica needed "to benefit sooner from this help."
Back in Moscow, Russian President Dmitri Medvedev was ebullient on Tuesday after Chavez added to the more than $3 billion he's spent on Russian weaponry in recent years. Chavez crowed about a "strategic partnership" with Russia to "guarantee the sovereignty of Venezuela, which the U.S. threatens." Medvedev gushed that it was the "common task" of Russia and Venezuela "to achieve a more democratic, just and secure world." All in all, it was a new Caribbean day in the Kremlin.
link _________________ Time to recognize there are only two classes of people; those that stole the wealth of America and those that got fleeced.
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Viper wrote:
I say it's all posturing. The Russians know that they don't get an early warning if we use our stealth bombers, that we're maintaining about three times as many operational warheads and that we have a lot more nuke subs in the water than they do.
Nevertheless that does not change a fact that shortly after launch of Russian nuclear arsenals you would cease to exist as organized state, albeit some strongholds of Stone Age would certainly be formed as time pass.
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Cid_Yama wrote:
Whether you think that belief is insane or not, that is what they believe. They will strike first, before the the US can get into a position to destroy them. That is how they see it.
I subscribe to that view.
Why one would die alone, if he could take his enemy with him?
That mean we will die together doctrine.
It implies that American efforts to gain first strike capability would in all probabilities result in total atomic war before adequate military infrastructure is ready.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1094 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Cid_Yama wrote:
Back in Moscow, Russian President Dmitri Medvedev was ebullient on Tuesday after Chavez added to the more than $3 billion he's spent on Russian weaponry in recent years. Chavez crowed about a "strategic partnership" with Russia to "guarantee the sovereignty of Venezuela, which the U.S. threatens." Medvedev gushed that it was the "common task" of Russia and Venezuela "to achieve a more democratic, just and secure world." All in all, it was a new Caribbean day in the Kremlin.
This is weird. I couldn't have made this stuff up two or three years ago. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1094 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Quote:
Washington seems increasingly on the sidelines of a region the Bush Administration once called America's third border.
This is galling. All the countries he's talking about are IN America, but he calls it "America's" third border. There are scores of borders among the dozens of countries in America, Mr. Bush, and the United States thereof is on two of them. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1435 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Russia 'gears up' to percieved US threat
The construction of new-generation nuclear-powered ballistic missile and attack submarines is a top priority for the Russian Navy's development, the Navy commander said on Friday.
"At present, we are providing sufficient financing for the creation of a fleet of a new-generation nuclear-powered strategic submarines," Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said.
Fourth-generation Borey-class nuclear-powered submarines armed with Bulava missiles would form the core of Russia's fleet of modern strategic submarines.
The first submarine in the series, Yury Dolgoruky, was built at the Sevmash plant in the northern Arkhangelsk Region and will soon join the Russian Navy. It will be equipped with 16 Bulava (SS-NX-30) ballistic missiles, which can carry up to ten nuclear warheads each, and have a range of 8,000 kilometers (about 5,000 miles).
Two other Borey-class nuclear submarines, the Alexander Nevsky and the Vladimir Monomakh, are currently under construction at the Sevmash plant.
In 2009, the Russian Navy will receive the first nuclear-powered attack submarine of the Project 885 Yasen (Graney) class, named Severodvinsk, Vysotsky said.
Severodvinsk is the first Russian submarine of the true multipurpose type, combining the ability to launch a variety of long-range nuclear missiles (up to 3,100 miles) and effectively engage hostile submarines and surface warships.
Moscow must answer U.S. shield with Cuban 'spy' site
Russia should respond to U.S. missile defense plans for Central Europe by reopening a 'spy' facility in Cuba to gather intelligence on the United States, a Russian analyst said on Wednesday.
The electronic monitoring and surveillance facility near Havana at Torrens, also known as the Lourdes facility, the largest Russian Sigint site abroad, was shut down in October 2001 by then- president Vladimir Putin.
"Cuba is a unique place to gather intelligence on the United States. I believe that the reopening of this station is both possible and necessary amid the threat that the Americans are creating for Russia," Alexander Pikayev, head of the disarmament and conflict resolution department at the Russian Academy of Sciences' World Economics and International Relations Institute, told a news conference at RIA Novosti.
Russia could place bombers in Latin America, N.Africa
Russian strategic bombers may soon be deployed at airbases in Cuba, Venezuela and Algeria as a response to the U.S. missile shield in Europe and NATO's expansion, Russian daily Izvestia said on Thursday.
"The flight to the U.S. [from southern Russia where the bombers are based] takes about 10 hours and even with two mid-air refuellings the aircraft can spend only 1.5 hours near the U.S. coast," said Gen. of the Army Pyotr Deinekin, former commander of the Russian Air Force.
The use of forward landing airfields in Latin America would practically erase the time constraints for the Russian bombers and make their presence near the U.S. borders almost permanent, the general said.
Both Tu-160 and Tu-95MS bombers have been recently modernized and fitted with new X-555 cruise missiles with a range of over 3,500 km (2,200 miles). Therefore, the bombers do not have to be permanently based near the U.S. borders to hit any target on U.S. territory in case of a potential conflict.
This means they can hit any and all targets in the US without entering, or even approaching, US airspace. This also means almost no reponse time.
Yep, the Cold War is back, in all it's horrific insanity. Thank you Mr. Bush for bringing it all back. You finally got your legacy.
By the way, ABMs don't work against cruise missiles. Just so you know.
The Rosbalt agency wrote that two years ago, Russia conducted a successful test of its X-555 cruise missile with a range of up to 5,000 km, circular error probable of 18-26 meters, and speed of Mach 0.77. It flies at tree-top level - 40 m to 110 m - which allows it to evade ABM systems. In early February, the ARMS-TASS news agency reported that India and Russia had begun joint research and development on a cruise missile that can fly several times the speed of sound.
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Don't blame it on Bush. It is the neocon run US media that is responsible for painting Russia into another Iraq. I guess the war on terror wasn't a good a racket as the cold war so they had to restart it.
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Quote:
The first submarine in the series, Yury Dolgoruky, was built at the Sevmash plant in the northern Arkhangelsk Region and will soon join the Russian Navy. It will be equipped with 16 Bulava (SS-NX-30) ballistic missiles, which can carry up to ten nuclear warheads each, and have a range of 8,000 kilometers (about 5,000 miles).
Show us a sucessful test of the sub AND the missile or they doesn't exist. Also, they started building this back in 1996... so there's nothing here that hasn't been here since Clinton was in office. Right now we have 14 SSBN's to the Russians' 10 and we have 4 SSGN's to their 6. We've got 52 hunters to their 35. We're planning and building 14 new subs, they're building 7. They have AN aircraft carier group to our 11. They're building 2-6 new ones, we're building 3... sounds like they're just trying to keep up...
Quote:
was laid down in November 1996 and was first planned to enter service in 2001. However, the missile that was supposed to accommodate the Borei class did not work as planned, and after several failed missile tests the submarine was redesigned to work with another missile system, the Bulava.
The electronic monitoring and surveillance facility near Havana at Torrens, also known as the Lourdes facility, the largest Russian Sigint site abroad, was shut down in October 2001 by then- president Vladimir Putin.
So... they had to make budget cuts which meant that Russian officers couldn't have the privilage of serving in Havana. Now they have the budget and the perk has been reinstated. This thing was on long after the "end" of the Cold War.
Quote:
In early February, the ARMS-TASS news agency reported that India and Russia had begun joint research and development on a cruise missile that can fly several times the speed of sound.
What do you think our Mach 10 scram jet tests are all about??? We can't call them missiles because we signed the Missile Technology Control Regime, which Russia also signed. We and about 12 other countries have scram jet research going on. None of this is new.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1435 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
None of this is new.
A return to the potential of nuclear annihilation at a moment's notice IS new.
When Bush entered office, we were all talking about a "new era of cooperation and partnership" with Russia. Missile systems were being dismantled. The Cold War was over.
Now, we are being faced with Russian bombers with advanced nuclear cruise missiles patrolling off the the borders of the US, specifically with the intention of providing a retaliatory capability against the US.
Instead of decomissioning their Navy, as had been the case when Bush entered office, they are rebuilding their sub launched nuclear missile deterence.
The possibillity of a mistake leading to the nuclear annihilation of the planet has returned.
Russia has gone from potential friend and new hope and opportunity in the world, back to deadly adversary.
You don't get it yet, but you will. Once you understand enough to recognize this is not a game. That if this happens, it won't be glory and flag waving. The movies Testament or The Day After give a hint to what the reality of a nuclear war might be. Also both versions of On the Beach. _________________ Time to recognize there are only two classes of people; those that stole the wealth of America and those that got fleeced.
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
See Cid, here's where you and I differ in opinions though. I never saw the Cold War as being over. I just saw the Russians run out of money and have to regroup / convert their economy to the Chinese proven version of Capitalism before they could get enough money back into their system so they could resume operations.
The disconnect here... the dream... is that you had any safety in the first place.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1435 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
I'm sorry, Viper. I don't see you as having ever experienced that world where, at any moment, we might need to bug-out, because missiles were on their way. You know nothing of being taught to "duck and cover" in elementary school.
There are many of us that are old enough to remember that world, which is what I call the Cold War.
We actually had bags packed in case we got the call to move. I had a bag in the closet by the front door and one in my car.
That did end with the fall of the Soviet Union. We have experienced almost 20 years without the ever-present possibility of nuclear war.
Now the possibility has returned, and we are closer than we have been since Reagan pushed the Pershing II medium range missiles into Europe.
During the 1960's most of my generation did not believe we would live to our 30's.
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
You really think the 70's and the 80's were THAT different from the 60's? We did the duck and cover thing at my school... we watched "why are the Russians trying to kill us" movies at school so we would understand just how threatened we were. We had letter writing campaigns because people thought that if we could just convince them that we were people too then that would make it all better. Oh, yeah, I was there alright.
But, like I said... the only reason you stopped feeling threatened is because the Russians didn't feel like spending the money any more, and people stopped talking about the fact that the two sides still had people waking up every morning and doing drills that simulated the end of the world. The "safe" world that you've thought you were living in during the 90's and early 00's was just a dream which was encouraged because it turned out to be good for business.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
