Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Children
If you want to give your child an additional tool in his survival toolbelt you may want to take a look at establishing a conscientious objector record.
By law, all males turning the age of 18 must register with selective services 30 days before or after his birthday.
By establishing a CO history years before his/her 18th you have documentation to fight a draft should it ever come up. Some things you can do to establish this are:
1. Childhood photos with anti-war shirts or banners.
2. Record the books he/she has read on resistance.
3. Let your child write peace essays and have them published.
4. Attend anti-war workshops or demonstrations and keep records.
5. Make known your childs CO status to teachers, family and clergy.
The further back your documentation goes the better off you'll be.
People who can claim exemption from the draft are:
1. Clergy
2. Son of a family where another family member has died in service.
3. The sole financial support to the family.
4. Physically or mentally ill.
5. Gay
6. A conscientious objector
There are actually two kinds of CO's:
1. Those whose beliefs that don't allow them to serve in the military.
2. Those whose beliefs don't allow them to be involved in combat. However they can join the military in a supporting role such as cook or nurse.
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
But be aware that you'll find a HSD agent at every peace rally, and you're likely to be putting your child's name on a "potential troublemaker" list with the government. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Cashmere wrote:
But be aware that you'll find a HSD agent at every peace rally, and you're likely to be putting your child's name on a "potential troublemaker" list with the government.
Can you link some proof or documentation of this please?
1. This assumes your kid really is a CO. If they are not really a CO, what meta lessons are you teaching?
2. You can help your kid but it has to be their decision. They will be the ones who will have to go before others and proclaim their belief. They are the ones who will have to do the alternative service. They are the ones who will need to live the remainder of their lives knowing their peers served in the military when they did not. If this does not come from a sincere belief it can become a psychological burden.
3. If you try to game the system for CO status and get exposed, you make the whole thing more difficult for true objectors. The difference between whether they are given alternative service or spend years in Federal Prison depends upon the system that is in place. If the system becomes cynical because people tried to game it and were caught, true objectors could spend the duration in prison.
I would hope that would bother people. _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Joining and attending a Mennonite Church is another way to achieve CO status.
I am proud to say my father was a CO during the Korean war and served two years working in a mental hospital.
Are there other religions that endorse conscientious objection to war?
cynthia
Joined: Sep 08, 2005 Posts: 792 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Why bother with messing around with CO status when you can just send your child to Canada? Just seems like a lot of work, when a one-way trip across the border would suffice.
I do hope Canada is gearing up for a truly massive influx of draft escapees, as I really don't see very many of today's video gamerz, emo-type kids being very willing to get themselves shot up in the Mideastern deserts...hehe.
Heck, even the Pentagon absolutely dreads the thought of ever bringing back the draft, and for good reason. _________________ Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide...
...and the meek shall inherit the Earth!
1. This assumes your kid really is a CO. If they are not really a CO, what meta lessons are you teaching?
2. You can help your kid but it has to be their decision. They will be the ones who will have to go before others and proclaim their belief. They are the ones who will have to do the alternative service. They are the ones who will need to live the remainder of their lives knowing their peers served in the military when they did not. If this does not come from a sincere belief it can become a psychological burden.
3. If you try to game the system for CO status and get exposed, you make the whole thing more difficult for true objectors. The difference between whether they are given alternative service or spend years in Federal Prison depends upon the system that is in place. If the system becomes cynical because people tried to game it and were caught, true objectors could spend the duration in prison.
I would hope that would bother people.
Sorry I made a couple of assumptions in my first post.
I assumed that if a parent is looking to establish a CO status for their child there is a moral or religious belief for that.
Seeing as how children are a product of their enviroment (at least in part) then the parents moral and religious views are usually passed on. I guess I just don't get how your childs life or someone elses life could be a game in any way shape or form.
And what is a "true" objector? Wouldn't it be someone whose moral or religious beliefs led them to establish a history of CO?
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Byron100 wrote:
Why bother with messing around with CO status when you can just send your child to Canada? Just seems like a lot of work, when a one-way trip across the border would suffice.
I do hope Canada is gearing up for a truly massive influx of draft escapees, as I really don't see very many of today's video gamerz, emo-type kids being very willing to get themselves shot up in the Mideastern deserts...hehe.
Heck, even the Pentagon absolutely dreads the thought of ever bringing back the draft, and for good reason.
Why do you assume you will be able to get into Canada? Why do you assume they won't send you back to the US military if you're caught? Why do you assume their system will be capable of supporting you and all of the others that make a run for it?
A CO has a history to defend him. He will be able to stay within his support framework providing that his CO status is verified. And if his CO status is ignored he still has the same option as you.
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
As I recall, Gibbons in the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire described a method of avoiding the draft. The person under draft obligation simply cut off the first two fingers of his right hand making it impossible for him to hold a sword.
A simpler method might be had by simply renouncing one’s citizenship and moving to another country.
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3361 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Commanding_Heights wrote:
And what is a "true" objector? Wouldn't it be someone whose moral or religious beliefs led them to establish a history of CO?
yes.
Children are a product of their environment but they also chart their own way. As a child of a parent I'm sure you can relate to this. There are plenty of people raised in the Mennonite Church who wind up not being CO's... and there are even more children of children raised in Mennonite churches which are not COs. Going out of your way to get pictures and get them to write something smells of manipulation.
True CO's have, historically, not had a problem because they did not have the proper paperwork or pics to "prove" CO status. They failed to answer the questions posed to them in a manner consisitent with a CO position.
If it is a true belief than you do not need to contrive the evidence (perhaps I was making an unfair assumption). Most COs have never attended a peace rally. We, speaking broadly, try to stay out of the culture wars for the same reasons we avoid physical wars. We are called to love not fight... if you do not think political fighting leads one away from loving your enemy spend some time with long time culture warriors.
Traditional Peace Churches
Mennonites
Amish
Quakers
Brethren in Christ
Hutterites
One does not need to be a member of one of these denominations to be a CO but these institutions have a long and recognized history of rejecting military service of all stripes. Because some Amish and Hutterites died in Leavenworth during WW1 is why we have had CO status in every bit of draft legislation since WW2. _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Commanding_Heights wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
But be aware that you'll find a HSD agent at every peace rally, and you're likely to be putting your child's name on a "potential troublemaker" list with the government.
Can you link some proof or documentation of this please?
No, but you'd be a fool to think that the Department of Homeland Spying is at the peace rally to hand out popcorn.
If your name is associated with a Peace Group, then you are most definitively on a list of "potential 5th columnists" somewhere in some government agency.
Have no doubt. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Cashmere wrote:
Commanding_Heights wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
But be aware that you'll find a HSD agent at every peace rally, and you're likely to be putting your child's name on a "potential troublemaker" list with the government.
Can you link some proof or documentation of this please?
No, but you'd be a fool to think that the Department of Homeland Spying is at the peace rally to hand out popcorn.
If your name is associated with a Peace Group, then you are most definitively on a list of "potential 5th columnists" somewhere in some government agency.
Have no doubt.
Oh I see... By having my childs name associated with a "Peace" group he must be a troublemaker and the first one the government will want to go after as soon as they start attacking the citizens.
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3361 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Cashmere wrote:
Commanding_Heights wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
But be aware that you'll find a HSD agent at every peace rally, and you're likely to be putting your child's name on a "potential troublemaker" list with the government.
Can you link some proof or documentation of this please?
No, but you'd be a fool to think that the Department of Homeland Spying is at the peace rally to hand out popcorn.
If your name is associated with a Peace Group, then you are most definitively on a list of "potential 5th columnists" somewhere in some government agency.
Have no doubt.
What is a "Peace Group"? If they are busy taking the names of the Amish and Hutterites and keeping files on them their budget really is too large and we need to have sympathy for the very bored Homeland Security Personal tasked with keeping tabs on them.
They must have really pissed someone off to draw that duty.
Sympathetic Homeland Security Drone wrote:
Report for July 28, 2008
5a "Yoder56285" milked cows after devotions
6a "Yoder56285" drank coffee with "Weaver 1632" discussed weather, price of lumber, the new bishop and whether "Miller1832" was breaking Ordnung.
etc etc etc
_________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Joined: Sep 08, 2005 Posts: 792 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Conscientious Objector Status for Your Chil
Commanding_Heights wrote:
Why do you assume you will be able to get into Canada? Why do you assume they won't send you back to the US military if you're caught? Why do you assume their system will be capable of supporting you and all of the others that make a run for it?
A CO has a history to defend him. He will be able to stay within his support framework providing that his CO status is verified. And if his CO status is ignored he still has the same option as you.
Nothing wrong with setting up CO status...it's just that very, very few people will have the forethought to establish such a history before a draft is implemented, as there will likely be very little warning. Granted, if the draft's been effect for a few years, and you have a child that's headed toward the dreaded age of 18, then it might be the most sensible thing to do at that point.
However, I'm not a big fan of "working with the system" like that, as that tends to backfire in a big way. Best thing for folks to do if they don't like things the way they are is to vote with their feet, and remove themselves from the system. And I don't think Canada is very likely to send people back to the US into the face of danger...they're just not that kind of people. And if the US raises a ruckus about that, well, then, Canada would have to cut off oil and electricity exports to the US, huh? _________________ Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide...
...and the meek shall inherit the Earth!
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