Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
The truths that America was built on which are outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights are just as holy now as they were when they were recorded. The problem with the USA is the citizens just made too many deals with the devil and are now paying the price. The devil shall always have his due, what comes around, goes around. The founding fathers understood that the kind of utopian government that they had formed needed vigilance, courage and discernment. Unfortunately, those qualities are rare in the average human. Because of that, collectively, America now has what it has and must deal with it.
You have to remember that many of the founding fathers DID NOT want a world power. They dreamed of a peaceful cooperative society which fought war only to protect individual freedom. However, the Citizens since have allowed unscrupulous people to read between the lines in the Constitution and create authority which really doesn't exist. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
Kingcoal wrote:
You have to remember that many of the founding fathers DID NOT want a world power. They dreamed of a peaceful cooperative society which fought war only to protect individual freedom. However, the Citizens since have allowed unscrupulous people to read between the lines in the Constitution and create authority which really doesn't exist.
I just love the way people romanticize the past.
The "founding fathers" were politicians. The bill of rights was written for the same reason that Bernake keeps insisting he's a strong-dollar man or every bank that's about to collapse issues a statement that it's "well capitalized". When power people are about to screw you, they feel the need to promise that they won't. The ONLY reason they needed a constitution, the only reason they needed a strong central government, was to infringe your rights. If TPTB hadn't been intent on screwing over their constituency, the state governments and the Articles of Confederation would have been more than adequate. The constitution was written to raise and army so they could continue screwing Massachuset's subsistence farmers and keep stealing their land. That's it. No lofty notions. No pious BS. Just greedy bastards stealing land and a whole lot of duplicitous double talk. If the founding fathers didn't dream of world conquest, it's only because they couldn't dream of a world beyond conquesting the Indian nations on their west. They were self-serving, duplicitous, jerks just like every politician before of since. Wake up and smell the coffee. There was no good old days. Just a long stream of the same sewage.
They call it the American dream for a reason. It's time to wake up. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4867 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
smallpoxgirl wrote:
Kingcoal wrote:
You have to remember that many of the founding fathers DID NOT want a world power. They dreamed of a peaceful cooperative society which fought war only to protect individual freedom. However, the Citizens since have allowed unscrupulous people to read between the lines in the Constitution and create authority which really doesn't exist.
I just love the way people romanticize the past.
The "founding fathers" were politicians. The bill of rights was written for the same reason that Bernake keeps insisting he's a strong-dollar man or every bank that's about to collapse issues a statement that it's "well capitalized". When power people are about to screw you, they feel the need to promise that they won't. The ONLY reason they needed a constitution, the only reason they needed a strong central government, was to infringe your rights. If TPTB hadn't been intent on screwing over their constituency, the state governments and the Articles of Confederation would have been more than adequate. The constitution was written to raise and army so they could continue screwing Massachuset's subsistence farmers and keep stealing their land. That's it. No lofty notions. No pious BS. Just greedy bastards stealing land and a whole lot of duplicitous double talk. If the founding fathers didn't dream of world conquest, it's only because they couldn't dream of a world beyond conquesting the Indian nations on their west. They were self-serving, duplicitous, jerks just like every politician before of since. Wake up and smell the coffee. There was no good old days. Just a long stream of the same sewage.
They call it the American dream for a reason. It's time to wake up.
+1
Nothing more than the blue bloods tryen to keep power in the new land.
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
I'm sorry you feel that way small pox. The framers were not gods, they were men. As men, they were driven by all the motives that drive men.
Still, it is clear that some of them realized that they were part of something that was larger than themselves. Men even the meanest of us are on occaison capable of virtue.
Washington was given the opportunity to become king. He declined the offer.
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
Cloud9 wrote:
Washington was given the opportunity to become king. He declined the offer.
And one of his first acts as President was to raise an army and attack a bunch of income tax resisters in Western PA. Cry me a river. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
Cloud9 wrote:
A dictator with four people in his police force is a joke.
There are plenty of folks living in small Southern towns in the 1930s-1950s would could have told you otherwise. It's what you do with the power that's important, more than how many departments you figure you need to do it. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
Nickel wrote:
I thought income tax wasn't instituted for the first time till the Civil War.
In theory. In reality the first income tax was instituted back in the 1790's. It was called a Whiskey tax, but the Alexander Hamilton very clearly intended it to be an income tax on rural farmers. In order to pay their property taxes, the farmers needed currency. They lived too far from the port cities to be able to trek crops to the city to sell for currency. Washington and others were actively working with the French to keep the Mississippi closed, so the farmers couldn't ship their crops through the Great Lakes and down the Mississippi. About the only way they had to get currency and pay their taxes was to make grain into whiskey. A keg of whiskey was far easier to trek across the Appalachians than a wagon full of grain and could be sold in the port cities for currency. Washington and others were making wagon loads of money speculating on land. They didn't want the farmers to be able to pay their taxes because then the land would get taken for property taxes, speculators could buy up the land, and the farmers would be forced to become tenants. It was this essential conflict between land grabbing speculators (aka "founding fathers") and rural subsistence farmers that led to Shay's rebellion, the passing of the constitution, the Whiskey rebellion, and ultimately Washington leading an army to attack Western Pennsylvania. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
The moment you have more than one person, you have politics, power games, and subjugation. That is the tragedy of it all.
I side with SPG in this debate. Always oppose government---that's the only way to at least keep the monster in check. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 398 Location: Mississippi Delta
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
I guess it all depends on your idea of the worst monster. It seems to me that there's at least a chance that government can be made to serve the people's interest. Not saying it's ever happened much here or anywhere else, just a possibility.
With business interests the possibility is zero.
And, unfortunately, govt is about the only possible check on business.
Unless you're one of those cargo cultists who still believes in the invisible hand, that is... _________________ Sarah Palin: Because what we really need right now is another inexperienced, inarticulate, personable, fundamentalist governor of an oil-dependent state for president.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4590 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
Everything is relative. After reading that blog post about TSHTF in Argentina, it makes the US with all its flaws look like a paradise. _________________ http://doomsteaddiary.blogspot.com/
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: The end of America, the land that we loved
green_achers wrote:
I guess it all depends on your idea of the worst monster. It seems to me that there's at least a chance that government can be made to serve the people's interest. Not saying it's ever happened much here or anywhere else, just a possibility.
With business interests the possibility is zero.
And, unfortunately, govt is about the only possible check on business.
Unless you're one of those cargo cultists who still believes in the invisible hand, that is...
It is always the same monster. I guess that was my point.
Business and government are in bed together, as far as I'm concerned. Yes there are some controls, but mostly it's play-acting. Business as a whole always gets its way; admittedly some excessively greedy or criminal individuals get punished along the way. Must keep up appearances, after all. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
