Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Cog wrote:
Quote:
The problem is that the Russians hold the energy card, especially over us Europeans. Fundamentally speaking, I'd be pleased if your plan happened, but in reality, I'm not sure it would be a good idea.
I'm just stating what I would do as POTUS. The war in Iraq has been a distraction from the real threat of Russian expansion. Yes, it is a very high risk maneuver for the United States and NATO but worth it, IMO, to contain the Russians.
The Russians know very well that they can not take on NATO and the USA in a conventional war. The military training and the technology of the West is vastly superior to Russian military capability.
The energy card the Russians can play against Europe and even the USA is a place that we have allowed to develop. With PO looming on the horizon for us all, this might be the last chance to contain Russian expansion.
"High Risk"????
You are begging for a Nuclear War. _________________ With Love to all, and Malice to none.
"A people is conquered not when they lose a war, but when they adopt the song and customs of the enemy"
-Chacham S
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 166 Location: Metro-East Illinois
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Quote:
You are begging for a Nuclear War.
The Russians know how this game is played. Nuclear war is not a likely outcome. They know our capabilities in that arena are vastly superior to theirs. If we do not confront the Russians when an ally is being invaded then the word of the USA is meaningless. The Russians will back down if we confront them with conventional forces.
Joined: Sep 30, 2005 Posts: 470 Location: Baltimore County, Md
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Georgia has seriously overplayed their hand. cheney loves georgia because of it's desirable location (from an energy perspective), the pipeline and the annoyance factor for the Russians. But the Georgians overreached... Now its all facked up. They served up a huge geopolitical win for the russians.
US Special forces teams are in Georgia today, along with some Marines. But my guess is that they are going to be oscar mike asap, if not already.
There is simply NO WAY the US could effectively answer Russia's 58th Army tank columns. Russia can drive to the conflict, we cannot.
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 993 Location: I have a whole ward
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Cog wrote:
I'm just stating what I would do as POTUS. The war in Iraq has been a distraction
A distraction?? This conflict is evidence of how critical Iraq is to US strategy. The whole reason we are there is oil. US forces now sit on top of and control the last largest supply of crude on the planet. Iraq is the most strategic place on Earth. No need to put carriers in danger by sending them close to the battle. Everything needed is in Iraq. Only 600 miles to the action.
Don't believe the fools in the media that vomit the nonsense about Bush/Cheney are idiots. The move into Iraq was strategic brilliance. Think about where the West would be if we were not in Iraq. These are the first of the modern resource wars. Russia is making a bid to control the pipe line, buying up and making deals to control the energy flow to the West.
So who ya going to call? France??
Oh and by the way. We will not leave Iraq anytime in the near future. Forget what Obama is saying. You guys are peak oil believers? So is Bush. We are where we have to be.
The spice must flow. _________________ Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
COG,
What you proposed was not a "cuban missile crisis" but a full scale engagement on a conventional battlefield.
Trusting in your conventional superiority, you forget that even if you are 100% correct, they are on par in nuclear arena.
How do think the USA would respond if 2-3 aircraft carriers were sunk either by Skvall torpedo's or air-burst of a nuke?
How do you think the Russia would react to it's conventional forces being pushed back by US air and ground support? Maybe they would destroy BY ANY MEANS the bases that supply and sustain such an attack?
Point is, NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE...because calmer, smarter people than you kept it form happening...
That is why we call it the COLD WAR vs. Red Dawn.
Let's keep it that way. _________________ With Love to all, and Malice to none.
"A people is conquered not when they lose a war, but when they adopt the song and customs of the enemy"
-Chacham S
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
AlexdeLarge wrote:
Cog wrote:
I'm just stating what I would do as POTUS. The war in Iraq has been a distraction
A distraction?? This conflict is evidence of how critical Iraq is to US strategy. The whole reason we are there is oil. US forces now sit on top of and control the last largest supply of crude on the planet. Iraq is the most strategic place on Earth. No need to put carriers in danger by sending them close to the battle. Everything needed is in Iraq. Only 600 miles to the action.
Don't believe the fools in the media that vomit the nonsense about Bush/Cheney are idiots. The move into Iraq was strategic brilliance. Think about where the West would be if we were not in Iraq. These are the first of the modern resource wars. Russia is making a bid to control the pipe line, buying up and making deals to control the energy flow to the West.
So who ya going to call? France??
Oh and by the way. We will not leave Iraq anytime in the near future. Forget what Obama is saying. You guys are peak oil believers? So is Bush. We are where we have to be.
The spice must flow.
I mostly agree.
I would not call the move "Brilliant", but necessary given the facts on the ground they established. If they had not hounded Saddam, he would not have switched to Euro, then the whole GW II would not have been.
Bush the ELDER is smart, bush the younger is a puppet...but is surrounded by intelligence that prop him up as much as possible given his limitations.
If the US manages to maintain a small but controlling presence in Iraq for the next 25 years...then it will have "mission accomplished".
The fact that the Chinese are already looking to swipe victory from our Jaws (oil Contracts) shows the control we have may be fleeting. _________________ With Love to all, and Malice to none.
"A people is conquered not when they lose a war, but when they adopt the song and customs of the enemy"
-Chacham S
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 297 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
AlexdeLarge wrote:
US interest is that the oil flows and is sold at market prices. Its not about cutting it off to China or anyone else.
What the US, the West and even China do not want is to be held hostage by energy.
While I seldom agree with your posts...you are dead into the bulls eye with this one! _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
It just makes me happy that there are trained professional brains maneuvering the armies. If the most powerful armies of the world were run by some of you armchair generals, there probably would have been a nuclear war decades before I was born.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
phaeryen wrote:
there probably would have been a nuclear war decades before I was born.
Remember that, when Russia takes Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in 2 months and the world does nothing as Helmut and Pierre do not want to freeze to death during the winter.
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