Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
He's currently having a hard time fulfilling orders after he appeared on Coast to Coast. You'd be better getting it from Amazon. Go for the hardcover version, it's got the DVD with it.
Note that his book is about Ethanol, but it goes into how you can (and indeed need to) integrate it into a farm-based system. _________________ All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Re: The Alternative, Sustainable Society We Must Build
[quote="Piedro"]
davep wrote:
Quinny wrote:
Note that his book is about Ethanol, but it goes into how you can (and indeed need to) integrate it into a farm-based system.
I agree with Fidel Castro in that Food for Poor People must have priority over Ethanol for Rich People Cars - Don't You?
I see on-farm ethanol as a local enabler, not as a means to keep the current bandwagon rolling. It can help reduce the amount of toil on the farm, and leaves as much protein after distillation as before. If used wisely, the residue can have a 1:1 to 2:1 ratio in conversion to mushrooms (distillers grain) and fish (CO2 via algae).
We need to stop thinking in dogmatic black and white. Of course the current ethanol trend is hugely wasteful. That doesn't mean that ethanol is verboten in itself, it can have a useful role to play. _________________ All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: Re: The Alternative, Sustainable Society We Must Build
Ludi wrote:
Growing and producing ethanol when I could be growing food seems like toil to me.
What toil is ethanol supposed to reduce?
I think having the ability to use a mechanised subsoiler type contraption would be less toil than double digging, for example. There are plenty of other such examples. It's all about using appropriate technology, not returning to a 100% manual system. _________________ All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: Re: The Alternative, Sustainable Society We Must Build
I agree with Dave P re dogmatic approach. If you'e ever worked on a farm, there are times when a little help can be absolutely essential, or crops will rot in the ground. I realise with small scale self sufficiency this is not as bad, but there are still things that a bit of a hand sometimes.
I know the man who cuts his own wood gets warm twice, but a logosol and chainsaw post peak would be nice.
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 398 Location: Mississippi Delta
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: THE ALTERNATIVE, SUSTAINABLE SOCIETY WE MUST BUILD
Ludi wrote:
green_achers wrote:
The truth to me is that modeling doesn't do a hell of a lot of good unless there are forces in place to impel people to do what they ought to do.
What sort of forces do you suggest?
If there are no models, how will people know what they "ought to do"?
Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Didn't get to town for a couple of days.
There are plenty of models. More than anyone could ever use. I started reading Mother Earth News in the 70s which was chock-full of people modeling better lifestyles even then.
The problem is that the vast majority of people won't choose a benign model. They want the suburb and the SUV.
One force I would suggest would be a hefty tax on energy.
Higher manufacturing standards.
Subsidies for mass transit.
You get the idea. The kind of things people vote politicians out of office for even mentioning. So, I'm not optimistic, obviously. _________________ Sarah Palin: Because what we really need right now is another inexperienced, inarticulate, personable, fundamentalist governor of an oil-dependent state for president.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13191 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: The Alternative, Sustainable Society We Must Build
davep wrote:
I think having the ability to use a mechanised subsoiler type contraption would be less toil than double digging, for example. There are plenty of other such examples. It's all about using appropriate technology, not returning to a 100% manual system.
What about just using growing plant roots to do the subsoiling? Digging isn't necessary to grow food. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: The Alternative, Sustainable Society We Must Build
Ludi wrote:
mercurygirl wrote:
The thing that worries me is that not only can we not expect support, we can expect the opposite. The attempts to escape the system already are not and will not be looked upon kindly, IMO.
So far I haven't experienced any interference in my attempts to live differently. I don't expect the state to look "kindly" upon them, which is why I don't invite the state to look at them at all. Don't flounce.
That's good, but my point is, don't expect the non-interference to continue forever, or maybe that prediction is for the next generation. Avoid the "eye" is always good advice.
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: Re: The Alternative, Sustainable Society We Must Build
Ludi wrote:
davep wrote:
I think having the ability to use a mechanised subsoiler type contraption would be less toil than double digging, for example. There are plenty of other such examples. It's all about using appropriate technology, not returning to a 100% manual system.
What about just using growing plant roots to do the subsoiling? Digging isn't necessary to grow food.
I guess it depends on the state of your soil. Where I live, it's compacted heavy clay. Waiting for nature to take its course may not be the best approach. Generally, small-scale mechanisation can help reduce the work burden compared to purely manual techniques.
Anyway, I didn't want to side-track the thread. I posted the Blume quote as a general rallying cry, not to big up the specifics of ethanol. _________________ All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha
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