Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: What does doom mean to you?
The "doomer" vs. "cornucopian" dichotomy is stupid. It's part of the culture & jargon of the various "peak oil" fora but it isn't meaningful or helpful. What may constitute "doom" for someone with an anthropocentric viewpoint might be the best thing to ever happen for the person with a biocentric or ecocentric worldview. If "doomer" vs. "cornucopian" constitutes the two poles of a continuum, how do you polarize that continuum? Which end is which? It all depends on how you look at the world, what your values are. Unless worldview & normative criteria are specified, "doomer" vs. "cornucopian" remains stupid & should be dumped.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: What does doom mean to you?
Understand where you're coming from.
I used to get frustrated by simplistic left v right political analysis.
How do you compare Stalin to Ghandi? I found Political Compass interesting. Maybe we should develop a second axis based on optimism v pessimism?
darwinsdog wrote:
The "doomer" vs. "cornucopian" dichotomy is stupid. It's part of the culture & jargon of the various "peak oil" fora but it isn't meaningful or helpful. What may constitute "doom" for someone with an anthropocentric viewpoint might be the best thing to ever happen for the person with a biocentric or ecocentric worldview. If "doomer" vs. "cornucopian" constitutes the two poles of a continuum, how do you polarize that continuum? Which end is which? It all depends on how you look at the world, what your values are. Unless worldview & normative criteria are specified, "doomer" vs. "cornucopian" remains stupid & should be dumped.
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: What does doom mean to you?
good post DD.
I'd like to add that there are various types of doomers and cornucopians.
The lack of a proper "pattern language" to differentiate the varieties leads to stereotyping and assumption.
If we can develop the language, we can communicate better.
some types of cornucopians with silly names:
econocorpian- yep, has zealous faith in the markets ability to "heal" whatever affliction could possibly confront civilization
technocorpian- mmhmm ,I'll have a solar battery charged, fuel cell backup hybrid that gets 770 miles per gallon WAY before we run out of oil!.
deniacorpian- pfffft, we'll always have oil
ragucorpian- lol you nutcase hippies, always predicting the end of the world....
and the unicorpian- if we all just pull together and realize that we can change our world, we can solve this problem, WE CAN DEFEAT PEAK OIL!!!....
some of the doomers-
squirrel- yeah its gonna be bad. luckily i've stored 3 years worth of food_item00 and a lifetimes worth of low_energy_tool01
beaver- today i troubleshot up my wind powered water pump, inventoried and stored 300 heirloom tomato seeds, split up a maple that was in the way of my root cellar thats goin in next week, and am working on my civil defense shelter plans by candlelight.
bear- grrr, dont mess with my cubs. I'm alert and ready for anything.
owl- who me?
the eskimos had 37 words for snow.
The more you understand something, the more precise and expansive your vocabulary needs to be.
On a 1 to 10 scale for the year 2015
population of humans on earth ( 1= extinct, 10 = 10 billion)
level of technology (1= stone age, 10 = nanorobotic revolution)
well now, thats quite the subjective list and a worthy topic on its own. anyways, feel free to critique it. I got a 58% cornucopian lol. I thought I was a doomer for sure!
O o _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: Re: What does doom mean to you?
coyote wrote:
Three questions to be answered in this thread. First: what is your definition of 'doom,' as used in the word 'doomer'? Is it human extinction, or only a grand depression? Severe and immediate dieoff, or just a few strategic resource wars? Second: by your own definition, are you a 'doomer'? Do you believe the doom you've described above will actually occur? Third: why are you a doomer, or why aren't you a doomer? What specific aspects of our situation make you think we'll be sucked into the abyss -- or that we'll skirt it neatly, or avoid it altogether?
I consider DOOM to be a range of possible futures, the worst of which is the end of all life on Earth, or, failing that, the extinction of humans and most other species. There are less serious eventualities that might also qualify as DOOM; however, in order to be DOOM, a possible future must involve something worse than "a few strategic resource wars." So the range is established from a major die-off of humans (50% or more) to the extinction of all life on Earth.
Yes, I am a doomer. I expect that 90% of humans will die, and that before they die they'll exterminate about half of the world's non-human species. The survivors will inherit a much poorer world, and nature will have a big job to do in repairing the biosphere.
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