Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
nobodypanic wrote:
well if we're on our way to running the russian blockade, doesn't that mean we're up to our ears in it already? i'd like to hear to your thoughts on that, since i think you've been very measured and reasonable in your opinions about this crisis thus far. edit: i see you responded already. thnx.
If the US is going in with the jets flying and the carriers steaming, yeah, we're all in trouble. It's end times... and over what? F*cking Georgia? And not even the one with Atlanta in it, where it would make sense? I don't know exactly what the US is sending in; if they're REALLY that stupid, then I gets the ants get a turn next.
If it is what it sounds like, the US sending in food and bandages and medicine, then the Russians open the doors, the US looks magnanimous, the Russians look sensible, and everyone's pride is assuaged. Let's hope that's what it's all about. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Quote:
I doubt the Russians would block humanitarian aid; even the US didn't do that during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Only shipments of a military nature. There's no need for it to come to a head.
How would the Russians know if the US is delivering humanitarian aid versus returning troops from Iraq? Just one example. Seems like one of those issues, even if well intentioned, could cause a lot of problems - lots of blowback.
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Quote:
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Polish and U.S. negotiators begin further talks Wednesday on a proposed U.S. missile defense system, a meeting where the fighting between Russia and Georgia was certain to loom large.
Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Tuesday the attacks in Georgia justified Poland's demand for additional security guarantees if it accepts a U.S. installation.
Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski reiterated that argument Wednesday in Brussels while speaking with reporters before returning to Warsaw for two days of talks with U.S. negotiator John Rood.
"The increase in international tension that we are dealing with now, but which we had not expected, makes the security guarantees ... an issue even more important than before," Sikorski said.
Washington has insisted that the system it wants to install in Poland and the Czech Republic is not directed against Russia. But Moscow has objected, saying the planned U.S. facilities are aimed at undermining Russia's own missile potential, and has threatened an unspecified "military technical" response.
Tusk said Tuesday that the talks, which have bogged down for months, are now "on the right track" and that he expects progress this week. In light of the conflict between Russia and Georgia, he said, "the kind of security guarantees are needed that would not leave Poland with only the bare (missile defense) installation."
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
seahorse2 wrote:
How would the Russians know if the US is delivering humanitarian aid versus returning troops from Iraq? Just one example.
2000 guys on a troop ship look a little different from bandaids.
I REALLY hope the United States isn't this stupid. We're talking about Russia's back yard this time. They're NOT going to back down, no matter what the US moves in front of them. There's no doubt in mind they'll shoot down anything that comes in without their okey-dokey, and let the chips fall where they may. The US would do the same thing if someone were interfering militarily in a crisis on the Mexican border. Let's keep that in mind when we're trying to justify US involvement and maintain some perspective. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Is the US getting more involved in the conflict?
- Putting Us troops in Georgia:
Quote:
Georgia and the U.S. Tripwire August 13, 2008 1729 GMT
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said U.S. forces will take over Georgia's ports and airports to carry out humanitarian and other missions. The speech underscores Tbilisi's desire to have the Georgian-Russian conflict heat up.
link
So, putting US troops in critical points, right? Troops that will, I suppose, need to carry some hardware just in case, isn´t it? and that may engage in combat if some "accident" happens...
-Rice going to Tbilisi to show "unwavering" U.S. support to Georgia
Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush told Russia on Wednesday to end the crisis with Georgia and ordered Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to Tbilisi to show "unwavering" U.S. support for the former Soviet republic.
Bush, who spoke with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili earlier in the day, also ordered the U.S. military to deliver humanitarian aid to Georgia.
His moves marked Washington's strongest show of support for Georgia since the conflict erupted last week.
"The United States of America stands with the democratically elected government of Georgia. We insist that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia be respected," Bush told reporters at the White House.
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Nickel wrote:
Roccland wrote:
So how many still think this is gonna blow over last Saturday? or that NATO is not going to get involved....or the the US is not going to get involved.
I think this is going to blow over in the next week or two. NATO's not going to get involved, and neither is the US.
The Russian invasion of Georgia has not changed the balance of power in Eurasia. It simply announced that the balance of power had already shifted. The United States has been absorbed in its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as potential conflict with Iran and a destabilizing situation in Pakistan. It has no strategic ground forces in reserve and is in no position to intervene on the Russian periphery. This, as we have argued, has opened a window of opportunity for the Russians to reassert their influence in the former Soviet sphere. Moscow did not have to concern itself with the potential response of the United States or Europe; hence, the invasion did not shift the balance of power. The balance of power had already shifted, and it was up to the Russians when to make this public. They did that Aug. 8.
Nothing will happen with this. There will be some useless hand-wringing and Washington but there is nothing that the US can do it about it.
This is not like the Cold War because the message the Russians are sending is not meant for American ears, it is meant for the countries in Russia's periphery who have fallen under American influence in recent years. Russia does not want to see American missiles, military bases and whatnot all along its Western border.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
UncoveringTruths wrote:
Poland, US ready for more missile defense talks. This should make the Ruskies assuaged.
Well, if nothing else, we shouldn't ever have our bullsh!t detectors explode when exposed to the line that the anti-missile defense is predicated on Iran... it's about US first-strike capabilities against Russia. But yeah, Russia's the aggressor... that's in the script, right? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 993 Location: I have a whole ward
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Today's Vocabulary Word.......Useful Idiots.
Term invented in Soviet Russia to describe people who blindly supported the likes of Lenin and Stalin while they committed atrocity after atrocity.
Today, it refers to brainwashed liberals and leftists the world over (usually college students that aren't necessarily idiots, but just misinformed, naive, and ignorant of facts due to being indoctrinated with liberal/socialist propaganda through their public education) who believe that George W. Bush has committed more crimes against humanity than leftist darlings like Saddam Hussain, Yasser Arafat, and Osama Bin Laden, and still defend Communism, the cause of over 100 million deaths to this day.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Carlhole wrote:
Nothing will happen with this. There will be some useless hand-wringing and Washington but there is nothing that the US can do it about it.
This is not like the Cold War because the message the Russians are sending is not meant for American ears, it is meant for the countries in Russia's periphery who have fallen under American influence in recent years. Russia does not want to see American missiles, military bases and whatnot all along its Western border.
This is a manifestation of growing Russian strength.
I'd tend to agree on all points. There's nothing here strategically intrinsic to US interests. Georgia'd be nice to have in NATO; a feather in the cap, I know; but it's not essential. But to Russia, the security of its borders IS strategically intrinsic. What kept us all from dying in a nuclear war before was that the Superpowers cultivated a keen sense of one another's core issues, and arranged things to avoid confrontations neither could back down from, for the most part. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Nickel wrote:
nobodypanic wrote:
what about 2000 javelin anti-tank missiles disguised as crates of food?
The idea of a blockade is stop and search.
i don't think US warships are going to stop and allow themselves to be boarded and searched.
on the other hand, if we were smart, we could send in a contracted supply ship and let it be searched while our warships stood off and made a big show of it for world consumption--that way maybe everyone gets to claim 'victory'.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
AlexdeLarge wrote:
Today's Vocabulary Word.......Useful Idiots.
Term invented in Soviet Russia to describe people who blindly supported the likes of Lenin and Stalin while they committed atrocity after atrocity.
What's today's vocabulary word for people who support the invasion of sovereign countries like Iraq and Afghanistan? I'd like to know what term the White House functionaries use when they're laughing at tools like you. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 15, 2008 Posts: 60 Location: Somewhere in the cold north
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Ehm am I on crack? Look at the second picture on link It's marked Reuters with a soldier and a military vehicle. Does that not look like a computer generated picture? Seriously it's pretty well done but it still looks fake.
Last edited by miles392 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Quote:
Aug. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Now that Russia has humiliated Georgia with a punishing military offensive, it may shift its attention to reining in pro-Western Ukraine, another American ally in the former Soviet Union.
Moving to counter any threat, Ukraine President Viktor Yushchenko today restricted the movement of Russia's Black Sea fleet, based in the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol, citing national security. The Foreign Ministry in Moscow denounced the decision as a ``serious, new anti-Russian step.''
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