Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Great ad of a Renault-Nissan electric car, aired in Israel - check the video: video
The French are right though: the post-oil era, which is leaping towards us at higher speeds than any of us anticipated, poses a major geopolitical problem.
Arab oil states will suddenly have no more income, and will realise that they haven't used their petro-dollars wisely. They haven't invested in education, knowledge and technology, while they have a mass of angry, jobless youngsters who can't compete in the global economy because they get everything for free.
Major problem.
And because the post-oil future is so soon upon us, we must prepare for these consequences today. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Quote:
Arab oil states will suddenly have no more income, and will realise that they haven't used their petro-dollars wisely.
What the hell are you talking about?
The Arab states are going to be producing oil for the next 50 years, and at 200-1,000 dollars a barrel, they'll hardly "suddenly" have no income.
In fact, as production falls, price will rise, offsetting the net effect on their economies. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 890 Location: Alif Lam Mim
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Cashmere wrote:
Quote:
Arab oil states will suddenly have no more income, and will realise that they haven't used their petro-dollars wisely.
What the hell are you talking about? The Arab states are going to be producing oil for the next 50 years, and at 200-1,000 dollars a barrel, they'll hardly "suddenly" have no income. In fact, as production falls, price will rise, offsetting the net effect on their economies.
But the inflation, if they stay dollar-pegged, will be a killer for lower-income people, which account for around half the population.
And what's up with this inflammation against Arabs and Muslims? Anytime a Muslim or Arab takes slight exception to something, it's always characterized as "Arabs/Muslims outraged" or "shocked" or "enraged". Here we have ONE guy saying it's a bad idea and another saying that the princes might be annoyed. Hardly can be described as enraged Arabs.
This is not the first time. This is a clear pattern of propaganda. Propaganda from Lorenzo? _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Cashmere wrote:
Quote:
Arab oil states will suddenly have no more income, and will realise that they haven't used their petro-dollars wisely.
What the hell are you talking about? The Arab states are going to be producing oil for the next 50 years, and at 200-1,000 dollars a barrel, they'll hardly "suddenly" have no income. In fact, as production falls, price will rise, offsetting the net effect on their economies.
The point is that nobody will buy oil any longer, except perhaps some manufacturers of plastics and other marginal products.
With the advent of the arab-enraging electric car, oil prices will collapse. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Lorenzo is a funny man. The average american uses 1.6 kilowatt of electicity a day. When the AVERAGE american plugs in his AVERAGE electric car he will be using 60 kilowatt of energy now PER DAY. this is about 30 times more than he used the day before.
So if everyone switches to electric cars, not counting the HUGE carbon footpring making a TON of batteries 100, million times over, not counting the lead poisoning of america (if indeed there is that much more lead) then
WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET ALL THAT ELECTRICITY???
oh, duh, george, I ... Uh... I,, heyuk heyuk, I never thought of that george, I din't I didn't I didn't I didn't george..
You is so smart george,...
Obvisouly they are not going to plug into our grid. OH SOLAR? AH!WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT?
YES WE WILL ALL HAVE SOLAR TO PLU INTO, 60 kilowatt hour solar for each man woman and child!
yes every man will vahe 5,000 solar panels one yard in area to power his car with a nother ton of batteries to store the charge which would be about 5 acres per person.!
yes and it would cost 5 million dollars per person!
Loerenzo, you are SOOOO smart, lets just build them tomorrow!
HYUK HYUK, My name is goofy! Yup, george, we iz going to go SOLAR george, hyukl hyuk!
You sound pretty funny, Lorenzo, you must be the resident comedian.
our grid cant even support 1% of our cars going electric, and when they TRY our common electricy will go up 5, 7, 10 times in price. Just like corn did from those idjuts using corn to make subsidized ethanol.
Oh wind poower? you is really funny Lorenzo. LEts put sails on every car and on quiet days everyone stays home.
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
dirthoser wrote:
WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET ALL THAT ELECTRICITY?
I understand your concern. It is a legitimate question.
But some very bright people are developing, demonstrating, implementing and investing in a tremendous range of alternative energy sources. These sectors are growing at 20, 30, 40, even 50% per annum.
Biomass, wind, solar PV, concentraring solar power, hydropower, tidal power, wave power, biogas, nuclear, geothermal, I mean, you name it, fosil fuels are just one amongst many energy resources, and a rather lame form of energy.
For example, T. Boone Pickens is investing a few billion into wind turbines. Vinod Khosla is investing a few in biomass. The Google boys are investing in concentrating solar power. And best of all, the American utilities love the prospect of the electric car, because it optimizes their power output.
Quote:
Massive Push to Integrate Electric Cars07.23.08
A massive collaborative effort, pushed by the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), will draw on GM and 34 of America's top utilities to help integrate plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the electrical grid.
Bring all this together, and the post-oil economy clearly emerges.
You think this is "funny." But thank God we don't have to rely on you for our future. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Cashmere wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?
The Arab states are going to be producing oil for the next 50 years, and at 200-1,000 dollars a barrel, they'll hardly "suddenly" have no income.
In fact, as production falls, price will rise, offsetting the net effect on their economies.
I disagree. Oil may go to $200 but not much further. The world is beginning to look to turn its back on oil. A revolution has begun particularly in Europe and even China looks like going crazy for renewables. So at $200 they may be selling a lot less and therefore the middle east is essentially finished. I'd give it no more than 30 years.
However they could simply half their production taking a barrel to a $1000 and I'm pretty certain that as the world uses less due to depression/renewables and conservation, OPEC will simply slow production keeping themselves rich and in charge. But if they carry on as they are now, fully ramped, then they will all be camel jockeys very, very soon .
What would you do if you were King Amaco? Keep giving the stuff away or hold most back to keep prices high - a tactic that Nintendo do with their Wii consoles and games _________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSFLSTb5KfU
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
KevO wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?
The Arab states are going to be producing oil for the next 50 years, and at 200-1,000 dollars a barrel, they'll hardly "suddenly" have no income.
In fact, as production falls, price will rise, offsetting the net effect on their economies.
I disagree. Oil may go to $200 but not much further. The world is beginning to look to turn its back on oil. A revolution has begun particularly in Europe and even China looks like going crazy for renewables. So at $200 they may be selling a lot less and therefore the middle east is essentially finished. I'd give it no more than 30 years.
However they could simply half their production taking a barrel to a $1000 and I'm pretty certain that as the world uses less due to depression/renewables and conservation, OPEC will simply slow production keeping themselves rich and in charge. But if they carry on as they are now, fully ramped, then they will all be camel jockeys very, very soon .
Spot on, KevO. I think many of us will be surprised to see how swiftly and thoroughly we will be kicking our oil habit.
Research has just shown that within a few years, *all* new cars sold will have a degree of hybridization. Within a few more years, *all* new cars will be pluggable. From there it will be a small step to transit to full electric systems.
The Arabs and the PO doomers are, err... doomed!! _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 890 Location: Alif Lam Mim
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Quote:
But some very bright people are developing, demonstrating, implementing and investing in a tremendous range of alternative energy sources. These sectors are growing at 20, 30, 40, even 50% per annum.
Growth rate doesn't matter that much, at least not instantaneous growth rate. These sectors are still extremely tiny so even a 1000% growth rate for a few years wouldn't put them above 5% of total electricity production. It's a simple matter of economics that these sectors will grow very fast initially due to the suitability of initial sites (solar, wind, geothermal and some others). However, as the good sites are used up, then less desirable sites with less wind or sun or geothermal potential are required and thus we won't be able to achieve a quick a growth rate.
And for the major renewables (solar, geothermal, hydro and wind), only wind is really growing at amazing levels. Last year we were around 32.000 thousand MWh and we're looking at about 40.000 thousand MWh, less than 25% growth. Solar has basically been flat for a decade. 500 thousand MWh in 1995 in the US and on pace for maybe 700 thousand this year. Hydro's actually gone down from 310 million to 290 million over a decade and geothermal has gone from 15.5 million MWh to an estimated 14.6 million.
And even wind and solar are completely dependent in the US for subsidies. Without these, they'd never make it. Look at CA's problem with the need for the Congress to pass more subsidies or else CA won't come close to their mandate.
All of these other ones are expected to have massive growth rates because they initially produced nothing. If biogas was only producing a few MWh a year last year, it's not hard for it to double with a little bit of money invested.
Quote:
For example, T. Boone Pickens is investing a few billion into wind turbines.
And he's pushing Congress to get the people to pay for his business because he knows it can't stand on its own. He's in it for the money and fame; not the actual helping of anybody. Never once has he asked people to be a little less greedy and reduce consumption. If the US had the same electricity demands as the people in Europe even, we'd be able to shut down all of our coal plants, or 60% of coal plants and all nat gas plants for use in cars. But instead, he's after money, not solutions. _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Israeli post-oil ad enrages Arabs
Lorenzo and his naysayers both have valid points. Personally, I feel electric utilities are poised to be the equivalent of today's oil producers. Without any doubt they will face challenges of building significant generation and distribution capacity but the potential payoff is huge. If half of U.S. oil imports are eliminated by EV use then the utilities have an annual $300+ billion market to play with. That can fund massive generation and distribution systems. Heck, utilities could simply buy everybody a bunch of CFL bulbs and further subsidize efficient appliances and temporarily spare the large expense of some new generation capacity. Perhaps we'll also see more homeowners with solar or even wind where surplus could be piped into the grid. The utilities will have time to adapt as mass EV production is several years off. We'll probably continue to phase in existing hybrid technology over the next decade with only small amounts of EVs rolling off assembly lines. EVs need time to scale and become competitive with liquid fuel powered vehicles. The median age of the U.S. auto fleet is 9 years so we will be replacing about 50% of the fleet within the next decade and these vehicles will be more efficient than the existing ones. Americans already knocked off 4-5% on the demand side by not driving so much. That figure should get higher as more fuel efficient vehicles get phased into the fleet. Peak oil production in the U.S. occurred in 1970 and consumption mat have peaked in 2005. It looks like a downward trend from here... Hybrids, EVs, PEVs, increased mass transit, young professionals moving to urban communities, conservation, powerdown... all adds up to sweating Sheikhs. How ironic would it be if imploding oil prices sometime in the future is a catalyst for further Middle East turmoil.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
