SpringCreekFarm Draft Horse Update

skyemoor

I think you made a wise decision, except I was surprised when you said;

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1761

SCF,
Hang in there, it ain't over until you decide it's over. Then you can change your mind however you want to.!

You're right to not commit when you aren't sure you can provide for them. You'd also be right to commit when you know you can! The year is young. Clip the hay field, and let it grow again!
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SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 950

Thanks everyone. It's like having a therapy group here at peakoil.com. What you are witnessing in me is my typical overreaction to problems that at the time seem insurmountable but are really just little glitches and can be overcome.

I didn't really mean the dream is killed as much as I mean that I'm pissed at myself for not following my original plan which was to have EVERYTHING in place before I got them.

I'm not ashamed to admit that this crap happens to me from time to time because of childhood of taking care of an invalid parent. When problems come along that take me over the top, I tend to overcompensate to avoid them. < end of dr phil session >

My mentor is really upset too. He phoned me from the Horse Progress days that are going on in Ohio, just to see if I am ok and had a change of heart. He has lots of faith in me and really wants me to succeed at this.

Fortunately for me, I still own the horses and haven't done anything on paper to say otherwise.

I do realize that there is always second cutting.

Here's what's really f*cking me up with this. I could go out tomorrow and buy 25K worth of new tractor, haying equipment etc. I have enough land that I could make that back in hay after a few years. It's because of this peak oil thing that holds me back from making such a commitment and it drives me bats. IF there weren't a crisis in the making or if I didn't believe it, and I do, I would go out tomorrow and end all this madness and just get the hell to work.

It's not only the weather that gets me stressed out, it's depending on other people who don't seem to care if I'm paying top dollar in cash, they just have their own thing going on and can't get to me until it may be too late. See what I mean? This could be the discussion of a whole other thread. What plans has peak oil made you reconsider?

Another problem that getting the horses has awakened me to is that I'm all alone here doing this. As Patience has attested to, it can get you in a whole lot of trouble very quickly if you and the horses are green. My mentor lives an hour away and gas aint getting any cheaper.

So it goes.

I felt better tonight by cutting the grass and making SCF a little neater and tidier. The garden is exploding in spite of my ignoring it. Thanks again for being friends of sorts.

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1761

SCF,
Do you have enough hay ground to make it with 2nd and maybe 3rd cuttings? Some spare pasture "cured on the stem" could help, too, along with whatever grain you can come up with.

Hay was so short here in Indiana last year that small round bales of CORNSTALKS were selling for $60 each! This year, the crop is good, though some got wet in early cuttings. There is none of the usual carryover of last year's hay, so nobody is complacent yet, but it looks like we'll be okay. Last year, some farmers took 5th wheel trailers to Missouri and Kansas to buy hay!!

It gets better, though. This year, everything is bearing heavily, especially fruit trees. FWIW, some old German farmers here fed cattle and horses on various root crops in the past, and had huge cellars under barns for this.
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oneplain1 · Tar Sands Joined: Nov 18, 2007 Posts: 54

SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 950

oneplain1 · Tar Sands Joined: Nov 18, 2007 Posts: 54

Good job!...I use a Kuhn disc mower to mow my hay, and boy if you've got the tractor to run one they sure do a slick job...just like using a lawn mower. I think they make a them in a 3, 4, 5, and 6 disc size. The 3 could be ran with a pretty small tractor. Our fields are of the small and tight quarters variety, I never enjoyed trying to maneuver a haybine thru them.
As far as the Progress days adventure goes: my oldest son (15) has been bitten by the bug, he informed me on the ride home that we need to have a team to work/play with....here we go!
You should make it your goal to attend one of these events, I believe next years will be in Indiana....very inspirational!
May your hay days be filled with sunshine and 90 degrees.
Good luck.

Heineken

SpringCreek, now you know how I felt when I chopped down my apple trees, having recognized that they were not worth the battle against the bugs, diseases, and heat. Although you probably felt even worse, since apple trees are a far cry from horses.

There is nothing wrong with changing your mind when the accumulated evidence dictates that as rational. You have nothing to hang your head about. Where do we learn this bullshit that it's somehow shameful to change your mind? Maybe from our idiotic presidential campaigns.

You've learned a great deal and may be able to apply the knowledge more productively in the future under better circumstances.

Hang in there. You'll feel better about this in due course.
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SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 950

Well I'm one luck SOB that's for sure. My hay was baled last monday between storms and the old fella that baled it said I have the best hay around considering most of the hay that was still standing is past prime. So I ended up with 32 5.5 x 5 round bales that will get me through the winter no problem. I've all but given up on the other 7 acres of hay still standing in the field. Second cutting is coming on strong so I may wait for that instead. It is a case of one extreme to the other with regard to hay. Last year there was none because of drought, this year there is a bumper crop because of all the rain. Most of the hay that was cut is only good for cattle because of the quality but, still there will be no shortage of hay this year, just for horses. LOL.

I travelled up country last night to watch my team working on a powered forecart and a haybine. They were part of a three horse hitch with a big gelding in the middle of them. The property was very hilly and damn, I must say, I was impressed at how well they all performed considering the racket the haybine and forecart were making. They are getting better all the time with the extra training.

There is a plowing match coming up near Toronto where my girls are going to be part of an 8 horse hitch ( 4 x 4 ) pulling a three bottom riding plow that's coming in from Alberta. I'm not sure I can make it but I'm happy that my girls are part of this.

I'm feeling better not that the hay is off. I'll be taking some time to slow down a bit and get ready for wintering the horses. I was just working too much and got overwhelmed by everything. I also backed off on the doom for a bit and feel a bit better that way as well.

Thanks for the ongoing encouragement. I'll not be around much so please forgive me if I don't get back promptly. SCF.

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1422

Wonderful news, SCF! Smile

so glad to hear everything is working out for you. Please post when you have a chance and let us know how it's all going.
K

bruce2288 · Tar Sands Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Posts: 23

[ Not sure what you call a haybine is. A windrower? Any way you have a team, why not buy a horse drawn bar mower? If you want to use the powered forcart a power bar mower they are cheap if they haven't been all cut for iron. Where are you?

SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 950

bruce2288 · Tar Sands Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Posts: 23

[Yep,that is what we would call a windrower here is Nebraska. I also had a tough time getting my hay up due to rain, but I loved it at least things will grow. too many dry years lately to complain about the rain. Good luck with the horses.

SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 950

In the continuing saga of SCF and his horses it has been a bittersweet journey. On one hand I’m thrilled to be fortunate enough to have the opportunity in life to be able to keep such wonderful beasts, but on the other hand, I’m still plagued with the notion that I might not have been sold the horses that I thought I was getting. I sit here now with my team of beautiful Percheron mares, with some regret and disdain at the man who sold them to me and I’m trying to make sense of it all. In many ways, I’ve learned much this year. I learned that genuinely nice guys could have a dishonest side to them, so subtle that you question your own sanity when you suspect they are lying to you.

For a little background: I joined a draft horse club in October of 2007. I attended many events and used various teams of horses owned by others. It was a hoot and I learned much from all these wonderful people. The club president and founder became my mentor. I had no experience with heavy horses ever but I did have some with riding horses but for the most part I’m pretty green. I was eager to buy a team of my own because I felt the sooner I got them the better it would be in terms of what I believe the future holds.

I was introduced to this team of mares that I now own and everything seemed normal. I led the horses around and worked with different combinations of other horses but I never did use the one horse named Nadia. For one reason or another the opportunity did not come up to use her but I thought nothing of it. The main reason I settled on Nadia and Lois ( Lois is a great horse btw ) is because I was told they are matched better than any of the other mares. I was led to believe that they were “well broke” and in fact I saw them both working just before I bought them and I was sold on them right there. What I wasn't told was that they were worked all day, that day, and were too tired to show their true nature.

Turns out, both horses were involved in a few runaways and at least one wreck. I was not told of this before the sale. I’ve been reading as much as I can about draft horses and the common school of thought is that sometimes, horses do not come back to be good horses after they are involved in a wreck and can learn nasty habits when they runaway and get away with it, that is, they get to go to the barn because it freaked out the teamster. They learn that is the way to get out of work. The problem is with the fact that I was not told they had been involved in mishaps and that would have caused me to back out of the deal. This guy lives 30 miles away so it’s not like I can drop in every night to keep tabs on them.

When the horses arrived on the night of June 23rd, we were ecstatic and I couldn’t wait to start this thread to chart the progress of this exercise. Now I’m a little embarrassed but I write all this as more of a contribution to the site and I’m not worried too much about sugar coating things to save face. My message to you all is you can still get duped even if you actually get to know the horses first.

The horses arrived on a Monday and went back to the club pres on the Friday. Here is what happened that first week.

I had a strange feeling the night they arrived that something was a little wrong with Nadia. When we were line driving the team, that is, without anything to pull, Nadia took a long time to settle down even with the pres driving them. Hmmm. I never saw her act that way before, I thought. Ok. Maybe she needs to settle in to her new home but she never did.

The next day we tried a simple exercise in leading the team around the barn yard. Lois led no problem. I led Nadia about 50 feet and then she started to balk. She would not lead forward no matter how much I tried to persuade her. I did, in fact, lead her in a circle a few times to leave the session with me in control which is very important because you must not let them control you ever. By Friday, I could not work with the animal at all.

Sure, she is was not crazy or even dangerous but she was no damn good because she just decided that she was not going to work for me. We tried on the Thursday of that week to take them out of the barnyard to the hitch post to try harnessing them. We led Lois out first because we knew Nadia would suffer separation anxiety and want to follow. She did but leading Nadia out was like working with a fu*king psychopath. It was very scary and we ended the session by releasing them back into the pasture. Wow, what a difference.

The show stopper happened the Friday afternoon when Nadia decided to crash through the gate that ties my two barns together, and she bolted out across the field. There has been no explanation for this.

My wife was working in the garden when she heard the ruckus. She said she felt like she was in a dream because she had no idea how she was going to get this 1600 lb horse, that was running full bore, through my hayfield, back in the barnyard. On top of that, what about the now downed gate? Would she have to catch both? Luckily the other horse, Lois just stayed in the barnyard shaking like a leaf too scared to move? WTF? My wife, who I’ve since given much more credit to, managed to coax Nadia back into the barnyard with some sweetfeed.

I happened to drive in the lane just after it was all over. I phoned the guy up immediately to get him down there and I told him to bring his horse trailer. He picked the team up and took them back. Since then he’s been working with them and they’ve been in parades, the Percheron Congress in Toronto, they were part of an 8 horse hitch but during all this they showed their colors as a bad team, that is one horse, Nadia is not a good horse. If I had 2 horses like Lois I would not be writing this.

The bottom line is, the club pres is not willing to stand behind them after all and has told me to my face that they are my horses and I have to figure out how to deal with this situation myself. Let me tell you, he is a brave dude to say that to me, but he did and he refused to give me a refund, in the meantime he has sold other horses that could have replaced mine and now there is no replacement that wouldn’t be a complete mismatch.

After he told me I was stuck, I have been trying to get them home and it finally happened the other night, this past Thursday. They came home and now I get to start all over again with them. I have a new gate, a new electric fence wire on the top of my whole pasture and I’m as ready as I can be this year. I was freaking out about my hay earlier in this thread but I’m ok that was as I was lucky enough to get just over 20 tons of hay round baled and out on a stone pad, in between rain storms. We’ve had gobs of rain this year but when I cracked one of the bales open for them, only 1 inch has been destroyed into the bale and the rest is super sweet timothy and other grasses so I won’t be buying hay at least.

I’ve considered dumping them at an auction, but only if Nadia shows no progress. This is the part that I’m a little unsure of. For now, they can stay here. We need to fatten them up.

I’ve since gained the support of several of the closest members of the draft horse club. This really surprised me because I always thought of them as being close friends with the club president but as it turns out, this was the turning point and the last straw of a long list of disappointments this guy has brought to their friendships and business dealings with them. I wish I had known these people better before but that didn’t happen.

I now have people that have offered to help me either sell them or train them or both. That gives me a little more hope that something positive will come of this in the end. They’ve said that they will lynch the club president if he doesn’t somehow go good for that team. I breathe a sigh of relief on that one, but I won’t hold my breath.

Since the team has been away from home they have nearly been starved. He has no pasture at his farm and the hay season has been dismal to say the least. When they got off the truck the other night. They ate for hours straight. I feared they would founder on the lush grass that the barnyard has become in their absence so I put out that bale of hay for them as an alternative. Each morning and night, I give them a decent ration of oats and they eat it readily. It has almost put Nadia in the palm of my hand in some ways. Maybe there will be hope for this team and me.

As a final note to this long posting, the club pres decided to cuff his one gelding Roy upside of the head at an event last weekend and Roy decided to rear up and come down on his leg, breaking it in two places and smashing his ankle. He is diabetic and 59 years old so he’ll have some time to think about how much of a prick he’s been with a lot of people, and his horses. I’m not the type of person that would wish this on even my worst enemy but seriously it looks like what goes around, comes around.

skyemoor · Last edited by skyemoor on Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total

This probably requires the input of someone more experienced with work horses, but you seem to have the options of working with Nadia one-on-one and gradually moving her back into the team, or selling her at your first opportunity. If he (the club president) mistreats his horses, then you may have to make up some ground to win back respect.
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