Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
tonisD:
And you, pretty sure, have plenty of first-hand evidence from your respected minister of foreign affairs, my agitated non-mongolian friend. Mind you, your people does indeed originate from the depths of Siberia. I imagine how much stench there would be if anyone killed a dozen of the US peacekeepers anywhere.
The real question is does Russia comply, no matter what the request is. If yes, keep bullying Russians. If not, well, maybe there is time for negotiations, not for orders. The US need to do some reading on how to negotiate with an equally strong partner. This was always a week spot for Americans. If they learn, I think the benefit for all is obvious, and much less threat, hysteria and paranoia for everyone.
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
ir290762 wrote:
tonisD:
And you, pretty sure, have plenty of first-hand evidence from your respected minister of foreign affairs, my agitated non-mongolian friend. Mind you, your people does indeed originate from the depths of Siberia. I imagine how much stench there would be if anyone killed a dozen of the US peacekeepers anywhere.
Official, world known human rights group vs "Putin says". Let me think now, who is more credible. How about the guy in the article they shot simply for being there? Was he the "mass-murderer of Ossetian children" or perhaps the "Tank-driver of doom"?
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
The_Virginian wrote:
The US was pushing for these measures before. Now the former Soviet States, and Warsaw Pact countries are motivated primed. I'm sure BOTH sides figured it would happen.
The real question is "what is the ENDGAME plan for each side." eg how does either side think it will benefit from this? That is what will affect us most.
No one ever wanted to admit it, but the Cold War never ended. It just ran out of funding for a while. With Russias new found energy wealth, the Cold War is once again picking up.
Why? Hell if I know. The only good thing to come out of the Cold War was the space program. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Micki wrote:
TonisD wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
And plenty of Mongolians...
Learn your geography There has never been any mongolians here.
Depends also on where your ancestors migrated from. They weren't originally from baltikum you know.
Take the Finns for instance, we came from past the Ural and mixed to some extent with Siberian tribes that were to some extent mongolian / north chinese. Finns also had some interface to the Huns (Think Attila). That is probably why Finnish language is related to Hungarian (Attila spent a lot of time there) and also has some distant relation to Korean and Japanese. A lot of finns also have high cheekbones and a bit slit eyes. Given that Estonian language is very much related to Finnish maybe you also have a mongolian ancestor.
In passing, since I recently happened to read a book about the genetic history of North-East Europeans, I'll point out that there is practically no Mongolic blood in Finns or Estonians. Most Estonians have their roots in East Europe (Russia/Ukraine) in the paleolithic era. Many Finns, and quite a few Estonians too, belong to the N3 genetic haplo group which has its roots in Siberia (< West China < Central Asia < ultimately being from Middle East like all other Europeans), but never exhibited Mongolic race features. Mongol/Tatar invasion didn't reach the North Baltic area, and according to current consensus, Uralic languages have no relation to Turkic/Mongolic languages, much less Korean or Japanese, as supposed in the 19th century in the early days of comparative linguistics.
As for Estonians disliking Russia, they can hardly be blamed for it, knowing their history. _________________ "The progress of civilization:
bondage --> spiritual faith --> courage --> liberty --> abundance --> complacency --> apathy --> dependence --> bondage." - Alexander Tyler
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Greetings! I from Russia. Forgive me for my English.
Wished to tell to you, that your government misinforms you about Georgia - the Ossetic conflict (as at you the Russian war) FoxNews, CNN writes mass-media грузино and other news channels speak you not the truth, between USA and Geogia definitely there is an arrangement on granting the incorrect information to the people - on August, 8th, 2008 Georgia armies have severely attacked on Ossetia (more precisely on ossetic people) occured cleaning, shot old men, children and women. Villages and capital practically are not a subject to restoration on them shot from system under name GRAD. A result for today 2000 killed peace inhabitants. It is asked, for what? In what they are guilty? Unless it not a genocide?
And now let's think, that would be, if Russia has not accepted in it participation... Ossetia it would be wiped out together with its small people. I once again repeat killed all without discrimination!!! And now after detection of proofs of participation in it the USA and do not wish to inform other countries to you on it. The government of these countries has created information vacuum that you have supported them. Russia bombed Geogia, but only military objects, please do not trust those who speak, that we killed peace citizens.
I write it that you have reflected on what truth is spoken you with your mass-media. About that - what democracy in that case can be!? What freedom of speech? When the mass-media speak what to speak people.
All that occured in southern Ossetia our mass-media showed on the air, and on how many I know yours in general about it held back, or showed as Soakashvili complains on Russia. And mistakes of your mass-media (FoxNews and CNN) too have shown us, when people from Ossetia on the air were stopped up with the leader or simply interrupted translation.
If you interesting in search of the truth I shall give you some criteria for information search on the Internet: you can use search on the Internet by a word "Осетия". The text to translate it is possible on a site _http://www.translate.ru/text.asp#tr_form
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
extrainfo-
We know that the only reason you are here on our forum..a PEAK OIL forum...is to spread russian propoganda about the georgian conflict.
We cherish the freedom of speech. So feel free to continue. Just keep in mind- you arent fooling anyone. _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 297 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
at least we had a couple of days break..
question 1: was there shelling into Georgia from S Ossetia in the three days before the Georgians struck?
question 2: if 2000 civilians were killed in the initial Georgian shelling, how come only 44 people were found dead?
question 3: if A Russian officer said on being questioned by media about why only certain streets were rocketed. something to the effect that " the Georgians were trying to reach the tunnel to block it, Their tanks would not pass up this street because it was too narrow so they brought down the buildings to force passage for their tanks up the road". Does this not show an actual military value target rather than indiscriminate shelling?
I asked this last time and our Russians were gone for 3 days just after so maybe they missed the questions? _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Last edited by the48thronin on Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Quote:
BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says NATO will not allow Russia to destabilize Georgia, intimidate other pro-Western governments in the former Soviet bloc or re-establish an Iron Curtain across Europe.
Speaking to reporters on her way to an emergency NATO meeting in Brussels, Rice warned Moscow it is playing a dangerous game with the United States and its allies, who will stand by Georgia and ensure its recovery from a weeklong Russian invasion.
Ahead of Tuesday's meeting, Rice also said the alliance would act to punish Russia for its actions and deny its strategic objectives by ensuring that Georgia's insfrastructure and economy are rebuilt and that its government is fully supported by the West.
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
MadScientist wrote:
extrainfo-We know that the only reason you are here on our forum..a PEAK OIL forum...is to spread russian propoganda about the georgian conflict. We cherish the freedom of speech. So feel free to continue. Just keep in mind- you arent fooling anyone.
This person is merely pointing out what most of us know already about the scope of propaganda and lies in the US media. Obviously the Russians and everybody else have their own version of propaganda.
Since most of us do not have first hand information on what happens around the world, it is necessary to wade through all the muck in an attempt to uncover nuggets of truth.
extrainfo-
Different perspectives are most welcome, so thanks for taking the time to share your views. _________________ "I eat the pretzel, it get stuck in the throat and I pass out..." - George W Bush
March 7, 2007 Remarks by the President to Political Appointees
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
MadScientist wrote:
gw- you missed the point completely.
Talk about missing the point, or shall I say, there are other "agents of propaganda" at work here.
My point was:
a) We don't have firsthand information about what really happened.
b) The US, Russia & Georgia have their own versions of propaganda.
c) Eventually, evidence with some measure of reliability will surface about what happens around the world. Having multiple perspectives is helpful in sifting through all the lies and propaganda. _________________ "I eat the pretzel, it get stuck in the throat and I pass out..." - George W Bush
March 7, 2007 Remarks by the President to Political Appointees
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6376 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
gw wrote:
We don't have firsthand information about what really happened.
We know Russia lied about not invading Georgia, and we know Russia lied again when they signed the EU-brokered ceasefire and agreed to withdraw from Georgia.
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Evidence about what really happened in Georgia will eventually surface over time. Organizations like Human Rights Watch investigate claims of human rights abuses and provide impartial assessments of human rights violations.
Quote:
Human Rights Watch is an independent, nongovernmental organization, supported by contributions from private individuals and foundations worldwide. It accepts no government funds, directly or indirectly.
Quote:
When Human Rights Watch entered Tskhinvali on August 13, the city was largely deserted. Human Rights Watch researchers saw numerous apartment buildings and houses damaged by shelling. Some of them had been hit by rockets most likely fired from Grad launchers, weapons that should not be used in areas populated by civilians, as they cannot be directed at only military targets and are therefore inherently indiscriminate.
The doctor also said that 44 bodies had been brought to the hospital since the fighting began, of both military and civilians. The figure reflects only those killed in the city of Tskhinvali. But the doctor was adamant that the majority of people killed in the city had been brought to the hospital before being buried, because the city morgue was not functioning due to the lack of electricity in the city.
Quote:
An attack on the main square in the Georgian town of Gori on August 12, 2008, killed and injured dozens of civilians, Human Rights Watch said today. The attack took place in the morning in front of the Gori Municipality Administration building, where several dozen civilians had gathered to collect food distributed by local officials. Victims of the attack described to Human Rights Watch how they saw numerous small explosions within seconds before they fell to the ground.
Human Rights Watch researchers have uncovered evidence that Russian aircraft dropped cluster bombs in populated areas in Georgia, killing at least 11 civilians and injuring dozens, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch called upon Russia to immediately stop using cluster bombs, weapons so dangerous to civilians that more than 100 nations have agreed to ban their use.
Cluster bombs are indiscriminate killers that most nations have agreed to outlaw, said Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch. Russia’s use of this weapon is not only deadly to civilians, but also an insult to international efforts to avoid a global humanitarian disaster of the kind caused by landmines.
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There has never been any mongolians here.
