Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Russia will keep disputed territories, no doubt here, but further military activities in Georgia proper are going to end for time being.
Saakashvili will also survive for time being, albeit I don't know how long he will stay in office. He will try to sell this dispute with Russia as victory and as we all know he will make further efforts to join NATO etc.
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
An interesting article from the " star and stripe:" link
For my two cents the Russian government stuffed things ,
they should have been a bit more hard nosed , cutting Georgia in two , keeping control of the western part , cutting the pipeline to Ceyan , whipping out the economy and getting the Georgians to REALLY squirm .
From the movie, Gladiator: "some people don't know when they have lost."
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Code:
Russia sold twice the amount of NG they have. Without Shtokman they won't be able to deliver. Shtokman needs huge amount of capital. I don't see where this capital would come from now.
Then the World better start learning to live with less NG. Driving patterns in US are showing that gasoline sales are dropping fast but this implies less economic activity as the people in the subs need to travel to do any sort of shopping. If they are driving less than perhaps this means they are spending less. Decreasing NG usage will be tougher (electric power plants, heating and cooking for homes, fertilizer production, etc )
Do not forget that NG production in the US is probable at a plateau. I know there is a fury of horizontal drilling going after the tight reservoirs around but when this plays out it will mean less NG produced in the US. Hence importing will be required , leading to a larger demand for NG on the world market.
After Kosovo you can only expect sharp responses from Russia. _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
South Ossetian, Abkhazian FM to arrive in Moscow to hold discussions on the recognition of these republics
Foreign Ministers of South Ossetia and Abkhazia will arrive in Moscow on Friday on the presidents’ instruction in order to hold discussions on the recognition of these republics, Abkhazian President Sergei Bagapsh said. link
Russia to OK any status of South Ossetia, Abkhazia people choose
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has declared Moscow will support any decision made by the people of South Ossetia and Abkhazia regarding the status of their republics.
Medvedev added that Russia would not only support them, but also guarantee these decisions in the Caucasus and the world over. link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Very very interesting. Has anyone seen a link from the "West" that verifies the supposed UN observer report that Georgia started the attack in Ossetia? _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Russia in control and on the move
As we watched, a column of Russian military vehicles moved into Georgia's main port of Poti and sealed off the entrance to the military part of the complex. Troop transporters, armoured personnel carriers and military speedboats are now lined up inside. Russian helicopters, including a gunship, also flew to the Black Sea port, with one of the aircraft landing briefly.
The Russians stopped us filming and refused to say what they were doing or how long they would stay. This is at least the third time the Russian army has moved into the port. But we know from what we've seen that they're destroying Georgian military hardware.
In the past few days, up to six Georgian navy vessels have either been crippled or sunk. There are also reports of navigation equipment and computers being destroyed or removed. The Russians appear to be, to use military jargon, neutralising the threat.
We managed to film a half-sunken Georgian coastguard vessel, which the Russians had blown up with explosives, or possibly shot with a tank. Earlier, we drove to a town called Senaki, about 30km (20 miles) east of here and it seemed the Russians were very much occupying it. They'd certainly taken control of the Georgian military base there and it felt very much like they were in control. link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Russian anger at US missile deal
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has said that a preliminary deal allowing the US to site missiles in Poland is aimed against Russia. Russia's envoy to Nato has meanwhile been quoted as saying the timing of the deal shows its true purpose is to counter Russia's "strategic potential".
At a press conference in Moscow on Friday, Russia's deputy chief of general staff, Gen Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said the US move "cannot go unpunished." "It's a cause for regret that at a time when we are already in a difficult situation, the American side further exacerbates the situation in relations between the United States and Russia," Gen Nogovitsyn said. link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Check out this analysis: Misha
I must say I am totally confused. Trying to figure out who set the trap is like those matriyoshka dolls sold in Russia. Always another layer of possibilities. _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Russian general says US missile defense deal exposes Poland to possible nuclear attack
Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.
He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.
At a news conference earlier Friday, Nogovitsyn had reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile-defense elements in Poland and the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But his subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up a war of words. link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
So far, the international economic consequences of the war in the Caucasus have been fairly minor, despite Georgia’s role as a major corridor for oil shipments. But as I was reading the latest bad news, I found myself wondering whether this war is an omen — a sign that the second great age of globalization may share the fate of the first.
If you’re wondering what I’m talking about, here’s what you need to know: our grandfathers lived in a world of largely self-sufficient, inward-looking national economies — but our great-great grandfathers lived, as we do, in a world of large-scale international trade and investment, a world destroyed by nationalism.
Whether we call it the rebirth of the cold war or the rebirth of nationalism (and the possible rebirth of isolationism for the USA) the truth is we are facing a great transition of one sort or another. _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Ukraine is prepared to open its missile defence network to co-operation with European and other foreign powers, the ex-Soviet republic's foreign ministry has said.
The ministry said on Saturday, that the demise of a bilateral Russian-Ukrainian defence agreement earlier this year "allows Ukraine to establish active co-operation with European countries".
The offer came as Poland finalised an agreement to host elements of a US missile defence shield that Moscow describes as a threat to its national security.
Ukraine's foreign ministry said Kiev could invite European partners to integrate their early warning systems against missile attacks.
_________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
shakespear1 wrote:
Very very interesting. Has anyone seen a link from the "West" that verifies the supposed UN observer report that Georgia started the attack in Ossetia?
Georgian forces and separatists in South Ossetia agree to observe a ceasefire and hold Russian-mediated talks to end their long-simmering conflict.
Hours later, Georgian forces launch a surprise attack, sending a large force against the breakaway province and reaching the capital Tskhinvali.
South Ossetian rebel leader Eduard Kokoity accuses Georgia of a "perfidious and base step".
The head of Georgian forces in South Ossetia says the operation is intended to "restore constitutional order" to the region, while the government says the troops are "neutralising separatist fighters attacking civilians".
Russia's special envoy in South Ossetia, Yuri Popov, says Georgia's military operation shows that it cannot be trusted and he calls on Nato to reconsider plans to offer it membership.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Israel eyes US failure to act in Georgia, Lebanon
The similarity between this chain of events and the crisis in Georgia is striking: Iran and Syria parallel Russia, Siniora and Saakashvili are the pro-Western leaders, Hezbollah resembles the separatists in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, France is the frenetic Western mediator, and above all - the Bush administration, encouraging Saakashvili and Siniora as supporters of democracy. Both leaders tried to stem the tide, wound up confronting a superior force, and discovered that the waning Bush administration was of no use.
For Israel, the developments in Lebanon are part of a complex strategic, political picture - Iran's aspiration to regional hegemony and nuclear weapons; the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah axis; the negotiations with Syria, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas; the Bush administration's decision to refrain from attacking Iran's nuclear facilities and its pressure on Israel to wait for diplomacy - all while the Israeli government and the Bush administration are approaching their end, with their potential heirs mired in elections and inheritance battles.
orl=http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1012489.html]link[/url] _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Cid_Yama wrote:
Russian general says US missile defense deal exposes Poland to possible nuclear attack Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.
He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.
At a news conference earlier Friday, Nogovitsyn had reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile-defense elements in Poland and the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But his subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up a war of words. link
Thanks for your informative thread.
As you mentioned in the OP, Venezuela is looking to Russia as a big brother. What about the rest of the bad boys out there...North Korea and Iran?
Will there be an answer to NATO from such a 'Russian Federation' or are these little countries too independent minded to look to Russia for protection?
Any other countries siding with Russia to be under their wing? There seem to be lots of Middle East countries that are getting beat to hell by Israel.
I've heard discussion of freezing the assets of Russia in the US was on the table. They may freeze their crude exports to answer such a freeze, or are they too hooked on the dollar to do such a thing?
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