Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
wotnip69 wrote:
Please explain why 'Hitler' and Goebels would be proud of RT? That’s a very strong statement which also makes comparison with some of the most evil men in history with today’s Russian leaders.
Switch those guys with Beria and Stalin and you should get the picture. You will answer with a 60 line epic about evil Georgians but that's okay - that is what they pay you for, our dear Russian plant.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
TonisD wrote:
wotnip69 wrote:
Please explain why 'Hitler' and Goebels would be proud of RT? That’s a very strong statement which also makes comparison with some of the most evil men in history with today’s Russian leaders.
Switch those guys with Beria and Stalin and you should get the picture. You will answer with a 60 line epic about evil Georgians but that's okay - that is what they pay you for, our dear Russian plant.
Russian Plant? Your kidding right?
All I am asking you to provide evidence to support your strong views..... Is that an unreasonable request?
Ok lets start simple, what main channels / radio / websites do you rely on for the news?
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
wotnip69 wrote:
All I am asking you to provide evidence to support your strong views..... Is that an unreasonable request?
Excuse me? It is you, the Russians, who need to finally bring forth the proof of genocide, razing of Thsingvali and so forth. So far, 99% of your bullshit has been proven to be lies, propaganda and pure garbage on a presidential level.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
TonisD wrote:
wotnip69 wrote:
All I am asking you to provide evidence to support your strong views..... Is that an unreasonable request?
Excuse me? It is you, the Russians, who need to finally bring forth the proof of genocide, razing of Thsingvali and so forth. So far, 99% of your bullshit has been proven to be lies, propaganda and pure garbage on a presidential level.
Why on earth do you think im Russian? Its hilarious....
I get the feeling Im speaking with a 12 to 16 year old... Am i correct?
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Micki wrote:
The background of the Finns is still very debatable but certain things suggest there is some level of Mongolian and/or other north/northwest chinese mixing.
Could be. I sometimes dream about horses, burning villages and long mustaches. _________________ The best about PO is that it constantly unbores me.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
TonisD wrote:
wotnip69 wrote:
Why on earth do you think im Russian? Its hilarious....
Quite simple really: there are 142 million people on this planet who believe what Russia Today broadcasts.
So are you pathologically incapable of accepting that this guy has a different outlook and opinion from you? Is it only possible for someone to disagree with you on the basis of venal self-interest and disingenuousness, and not because he sees the world differently from you?
Why don't you try actually addressing what he's saying with facts of your own instead of just suggesting he's "a plant"? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
TonisD wrote:
wotnip69 wrote:
Why on earth do you think im Russian? Its hilarious....
Quite simple really: there are 142 million people on this planet who believe what Russia Today broadcasts.
TonisD lets just call it a day, Iv looked over some of your previous posts and noted the sources you read, looks like you rely on CNN and SKY amongst others.
SKY: (MUST WATCH) YouTube
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Nickel wrote:
Why don't you try actually addressing what he's saying with facts of your own instead of just suggesting he's "a plant"?
Really now?
I said there was no genocide in Ossetia when the fighting was still young, guess what? Independent watchers and the human rights group there agree with me (every sane person would understand that anyway, even without a 3rd party confirmation). Russia Today states that were thousands of foreign mercenaries fighting for Georgia, including men from US, Ukraine, the Baltics and who could forget the all time legend - female femme fatale snipers from Estonia, wielding Barrett 50s and wearing bright white tights (look it up if you don't believe me, it seems we had hundreds of women snipers killing poor Russian soldiers in Chechnya too, you know).
So, any confirmation about the genocide except Russian hysteria? Not really.
So, any confirmation about the incredible number of foreign mercenaries killing Russian soldiers? No? How come all these super-equipped and trained soldiers managed to only kill 200 or so soldiers in 5 days while also being supported by Georgian troops and never has a foreign mercenary or his body been shown on TV? I have seen Georgian troops in more than 2 pieces all over the net and news.
So, Russian bullshit being spinned about no Russians in Georgia, while Russian tanks drive around Gori and planes shell civilians live on TV. I would go with a definite "yes."
So, Tshinvali razed and 2000 people killed? Not really, only 44 bodies reported so far. Yet, wasn't the 2000 dead the entire reason for the "peacekeeping" mission in the first place as Georgian soldiers were driving over children with tanks?
Half of Georgia still occupied, although the cease-fire agreement with Medvedev's signature on it, states that troops should have been pulled out days ago? I kind of would have guessed that the signature of Russian president has atleast some weight in his country and armed forces. Guess I was wrong.
Russian armoured columns driving around a sovereign country, entering cities, looting, pillaging, bombing and flat out stealing everything of value like it was WW2? A definite yes.
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6376 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
TonisD wrote:
Should I continue?
There is no need.
Anyone with a shred of honesty can see the Russians invaded Georgia, and the Russians lied about not going beyond Ossetia and they lied about withdrawing from Georgia after signing a truce.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
TonisD
You are missing the concept.
Your view is based on what you have read, seen, heard from western media sources are proven to be politically and business motivated.
At the moment we are entering cold war II combined with Peak Oil (scares me!), therefore BOTH sides are selectively choosing what is portrayed in the media to suit their agenda.
BUSH benefits:
-Reinforces NATO Entry for Georgia (Buffer against Russia)
-BTC pipeline under threat (This stopped Russia from having a Monopoly on Pipelines)
-Undermines Russia’s objections to having Missile shield systems in: Poland, Czech, Ukraine
-Undermines Russia’s support for Iran (Russia is bad and supports bad regimes mindset)
-Etc etc etc
There are my other factors of course but it seems quite convenient in my opinion. What worries me is what happens when Russia has been completely demonized by the west? (Lets assume its being done intentionally for a minute).
Is there something bigger planned in the future we haven’t yet found out about? Is this Demonization of Russia going to be used as leverage, justification of a bigger event or issue?
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Plantagenet wrote:
TonisD wrote:
Should I continue?
There is no need.
Anyone with a shred of honesty can see the Russians invaded Georgia, and the Russians lied about not going beyond Ossetia and they lied about withdrawing from Georgia after signing a truce.
Well, here's the account from a reporter on the spot with Irish Times. I suppose he has no shred of honesty?
Here in Tskhinvali, there was no doubt that Georgia started the war with Russia and much bitterness about the rain of artillery and rockets that the government of President Mikheil Saakashvili used in its efforts to capture the city. The Georgian government said much of the destruction of Tskhinvali was caused by a Russian counteroffensive, but that argument carries no weight with residents here, some of them clearly traumatised.
People insist that a terrible barrage struck the city late on August 7th and continued into the morning - accounts supported by western monitors who were also forced into their cellars. Indeed, buildings used by the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe were damaged, one severely.
"Grad came and hit us," said Garik Gabayev, referring to the fearsome BM-21 multiple rocket system employed by Georgian forces. Grad is a word that has entered the vocabulary of this town, cited by one resident after another as they described what they experienced.
Quote:
But the number of dead remains in dispute. Mikhail Minsayev, until yesterday the minister of interior in the separatist South Ossetian government, told reporters on Saturday that as many as 2,100 people had been killed.
When challenged on that figure by reporters, who cited statements by medical workers and human rights groups that there was no evidence of such a high death toll, he said people quickly buried the dead in their yards or took the bodies to North Ossetia in Russia for burial.
In conversations here, everyone interviewed said they had lost either no family members or one person. But those were interviews with people whose cellars had held. Many clearly had not.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
wotnip69 wrote:
Is there something bigger planned in the future we haven’t yet found out about? Is this Demonization of Russia going to be used as leverage, justification of a bigger event or issue?
There is no demonization of Russia. That country is managing to make itself a demon all by itself quite well. And the fact that the state controlled media is spewing propaganda 24/7 about how poor Russians are miss-treated everywhere, does not help one bit.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Quote:
Russia/Georgia: Militias Attack Civilians in Gori Region
Russia Should Curb Militias and Allow in Humanitarian Aid
(Tbilisi, August 17, 2008) – Russian authorities should immediately take steps to end Ossetian militia attacks on ethnic Georgians in the Gori district of Georgia, Human Rights Watch said today. The Russian military should also ensure safe passage for civilians wishing to leave the region and for humanitarian aid agencies to enter.
The Russian military has effective control of the Gori region, making it responsible for the security and well-being of all people living there.
"The Russian military has effective control of the Gori region, making it responsible for the security and well-being of all people living there," said Rachel Denber, Europe and Central Asia deputy director at Human Rights Watch. "Russia should prevent any further militia attacks and allow humanitarian aid to reach the hundreds of vulnerable civilians still in the area, including many elderly."
A doctor at Tskhinvali Regional Hospital who was on duty from the afternoon of August 7 told Human Rights Watch that between August 6 to12 the hospital treated 273 wounded, both military and civilians. She said her hospital was the only clinic treating the wounded in Tskhinvali. The doctor said there were more military personnel than civilians among the wounded and added that all of the wounded were later transferred to the Russian Ministry of Emergencies mobile hospitals in South and North Ossetia. As of August 13, there were no wounded left in the Tskhinvali hospital.
The doctor also said that 44 bodies had been brought to the hospital since the fighting began, of both military and civilians. The figure reflects only those killed in the city of Tskhinvali. But the doctor was adamant that the majority of people killed in the city had been brought to the hospital before being buried, because the city morgue was not functioning due to the lack of electricity in the city.
From August 8 to 11, the doctor said, staff had to move all the patients into the hospital basement because of the constant shelling. The doctor said the hospital was under fire for 18 hours. Human Rights Watch documented the damage caused to the hospital building by a rocket believed to have been fired from a Grad multiple rocket launcher which hit the hospital, severely damaging treatment rooms on the second and third floors.
The doctor told Human Rights Watch that she could not leave the hospital because of the heavy shelling. She also said that two sisters, hospital employees, were killed on August 8 or 9, as they were hiding in the basement of their house.
The American people should be eternally grateful to Old Europe for having spiked the Bush-McCain plan to bring Georgia into NATO.
Had Georgia been in NATO when Mikheil Saakashvili invaded South Ossetia, we would be eyeball to eyeball with Russia, facing war in the Caucasus, where Moscow's superiority is as great as U.S. superiority in the Caribbean during the Cuban missile crisis.
If the Russia-Georgia war proves nothing else, it is the insanity of giving erratic hotheads in volatile nations the power to drag the United States into war.
Quote:
Joe Biden ought to be conducting public hearings on who caused this U.S. humiliation.
The war in Georgia has exposed the dangerous overextension of U.S. power. There is no way America can fight a war with Russia in the Caucasus with our army tied down in Afghanistan and Iraq. Nor should we. Hence, it is demented to be offering, as John McCain and Barack Obama are, NATO membership to Tbilisi.
The United States must decide whether it wants a partner in a flawed Russia or a second Cold War. For if we want another Cold War, we are, by cutting Russia out of the oil of the Caspian and pushing NATO into her face, going about it exactly the right way.
Vladimir Putin is no Stalin. He is a nationalist determined, as ruler of a proud and powerful country, to assert his nation's primacy in its own sphere, just as U.S. presidents from James Monroe to Bush have done on our side of the Atlantic.
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