Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Oct 03, 2004 Posts: 566 Location: Washington State
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
MC2 wrote:
Russia will lose this little standoff - doesn't really matter how they want to play it.
And how, exactly will they lose it? They already won and we can do nothing about it.
Kick them out of the G8? Have Europe quit buying their gas and oil?
Boycot the 2012? olympics? pack all the breakaway countries around them with US and Israel arms and personnel?
Oh I know, next time the French leader goes to broker a cease fire, he has to leave his wife at home! _________________ This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
Highlander 2007
The Caucasus Republic of Georgia as nations go does not appear to be a major global player. Yet Washington has invested huge sums and organized to put its own despot, Mikhail Saakashvili, in the Presidency in order to close a nuclear NATO iron ring around Russia. Now US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is in Tbilisi making sharp statements against Moscow for supporting the independent neighbor states of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, in essence blaming Moscow for an imminent war Washington has incited in order to bring Georgia into NATO by the December NATO Summit.
What a bunch of blundering, dunderheaded idiots we have calling the shots in Washington. I suppose we have to count our blessings! _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
The conflict was triggered by a large-scale Georgian assault on the breakaway region of South Ossetia on August 7, which the Georgian side argued was a move in response to several days of sporadic cross-border attacks and mortar fire against Georgian positions. As Georgian forces entered South Ossetia and initially seized the capital Tskhinvali in attempt to subdue the separatist region, Russian forces responded with an overwhelming show of force, deploying substantial armored forces and ground troops and quickly establishing air superiority.
Quote:
The Georgian offensive opened with an infantry assault against South Ossetia's capital Tskhinvali, situated in a valley surrounded by Georgian-populated villages, with an open terrain conducive to armored and mass infantry penetration. The thrust came after a preparatory artillery attack from Georgian positions with fire support capabilities including target-oriented and concentrated fire, and including a mortar barrage and launch of notoriously imprecise truck-mounted GRAD multiple-barreled rocket launchers.
Although politically in line with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili's consistent threats to restore his country's territorial integrity, in strictly military terms, the offensive was the first-ever test of the US-trained Georgian troops.
Quote:
Conclusion
In light of the combination of fundamental tactical shortcomings and serious strategic blunders in the Georgian campaign to retake South Ossetia, it seems clear that the flaws in Georgian military planning were based on two key factors: an over-confident assumption of its own combat readiness and capabilities, as well as by a serious underestimation of the scale and scope of the Russian response.
Quote:
Richard Giragosian is a Washington-based analyst specializing in international relations, with a focus on economics, security and political developments in the former Soviet Union, the Middle East and the Asia-Pacific region. He is a regular contributor to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) publications, Transitions Online, and the Asia Times Online. He also covers politics, economics and security in the South Caucasus and the Japanese military for the London-based Jane’s Information Group. Since 2002, Giragosian has served as a guest lecturer for the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center & School, U.S. Army, 3rd Battalion, 1st Special Warfare Training Group (Airborne), Fort Bragg, NC.
For nine years, Giragosian served as a Professional Staff Member of the Joint Economic Committee of the U.S. Congress. As the committee’s principal staffer on the former Soviet Union and China, Giragosian was a liaison to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and the Library of Congress, conducting Congressional hearings and issuing joint reports on international relations for Members of Congress. Giragosian has also written and lectured on developments in international affairs and has participated in select research and consulting projects for the U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force, as well as for NATO, the United Nations, the World Bank, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), the U.S. Department of State, and the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). He is a member of the Academy of Political Science, the Central Eurasian Studies Association (CESS), the Association for the Study of Nationalities (ASN), the U.S. Naval Institute and the U.S. Naval War College Foundation.
Moscow's ruthless attempt to suborn, subdue and subordinate this tiny, independent democracy is reminiscent of Stalin's times. The assault on Georgia is similar to what Stalin's Soviet Union did to Finland in 1939: in both cases, Moscow engaged in an arbitrary, brutal and irresponsible use of force to impose domination over a weaker, democratic neighbor. The question now is whether the global community can demonstrate to the Kremlin that there are costs for the blatant use of force on behalf of anachronistic imperialist goals....
I wonder when the global community will demonstrate to Washington that there are costs for the blatant use of force in advancing imperialist goals in places like Iraq?
In any case, Zbig's whole characterization of the recent clash in Georgia is just flat wrong. That old has-been cold warrior can't help himself.
London, 16th August 2008: GRU PRIME MINISTER DEMANDS IMMEDIATE PAYMENT OF $87 BILLION Russian GRU-Prime Minister Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has DEMANDED that his grossly overdue payment of $30 billion under the Reagan-Mitterrand Protocols MUST be paid, WITH COMPOUND INTEREST, and IN THE BANK BY MONDAY, 18TH AUGUST, or he owns the pipeline and Georgia. With compound interest, the sum of money outstanding and payable to Putin is $87 BILLION, which is the sum he requires to be in the bank BY MONDAY. FAILING PAYMENT OF $87 BILLION BY MONDAY, RUSSIA WILL SEIZE THE GEORGIAN PORTION OF THE PIPELINE AND WILL TAKE THE WHOLE OF GEORGIA, WHATEVER RICE AND BUSH SAY. LIKE WE SAID, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, AND ONLY ABOUT THE MONEY In the two preceding reports, we pointed out that IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Since those reports appeared here, every self-appointed guru under the sun has developed all sorts of alternative explanations, ALL OF WHICH MISS THE POINT AND ARE DIVERSIONARY.
Under former President William Jefferson Clinton (William Blyth IV), the US Government, which is to say THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER, provided $100 billion to finance construction of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline. IT PUT UP THE MONEY TO PUT THE PIPELINE IN PLACE.
•
The relevant agreement provided for the following corrupt payments: (1) One dollar per barrel OFF THE TOP (i.e., gross) to be paid to former President George H. W. Bush (41), the most corrupt operative on earth.
... Bear in mind, again, when considering the above, that $100 billion of US Government money, i.e. funds provided by the US taxpayer, were corruptly pumped into the Georgia pipeline project, with the intention that the American people as a whole would never see a penny from that investment...
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2025 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
The quality of the thread seems to have deteriorated somewhat from when I last checked. Hope the pie casting has ended now.
Anyway there are two interesting articles in PrisonPlanet.
Both are from Russian sources but based on that I don't think we can determine if both are genuine or not, so please don't start bitch fighting over it.
1) Georgian authorities block Russian humanitarian aid for Gori
Quote:
The city authorities of Gori have refused humanitarian aid from Russia. A convoy carrying food for the Georgian city was ordered on Monday to return to Tskhinvali, according to the Russian Emergencies Ministry.
The humanitarian convoy was unloading its cargo at a local church in preparation for its later distribution when a man came and demanded that the trucks left. He reportedly said the city needed no help, according to ITAR TASS news agency.
The ministry has been making a daily delivery ofng 40 to 45 tonnes of food to Georgia for the last four days, said Emergencies Minister Sergey Shoigu on Monday. The normal food supply was disrupted after local authorities fled from advancing Russian troops.
2) Russian General Says Georgia May Commit False Flag Terror Attacks
Quote:
Georgia may be planning to commit false flag terror attacks by using mercenaries dressed in Russian uniforms, as Russia moved to guard sensitive infrastructure against terrorist attacks.
.
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In response to the threat, Russia has stationed troops around the Inguri Hydroelectric Plant, viewed as a potential target.
The falseflag scenario is particularly worrisome if either false flag is carried out and blamed on Russians or if Russians carry something out and claim it wasn't then. Either way, it can be an event that escalates the situation.
If for instance a power plant was brought down, I am sure US and possibly other countries would use that as justification as send troops to Georgia.
Maybe WW3 really did start 8/8 and we just don't know it yet... _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: Russia-vs-Georgia.com
Russia-vs-Georgia.com – visitor can vote there for one of the conflict sides. Now Russia leading – only 20% of visitors support Georgia.
And there is more then 2000 comments about war in South Osetia – interesting to read opposite opinions -
link
Please Share This Website With Everyone You Know
The planners of this campaign clearly wanted to make sure that, whatever the outcome, Russia would be blamed for worsening the situation. The West then mounted a propaganda attack against Russia, with the American news media leading the way.
The news coverage has been far from fair and balanced, especially during the first days of the crisis. Tskhinvali was in smoking ruins and thousands of people were fleeing — before any Russian troops arrived. Yet Russia was already being accused of aggression; news reports were often an embarrassing recitation of the Georgian leader’s deceptive statements.
It is still not quite clear whether the West was aware of Mr. Saakashvili’s plans to invade South Ossetia, and this is a serious matter. What is clear is that Western assistance in training Georgian troops and shipping large supplies of arms had been pushing the region toward war rather than peace.
Joined: Nov 20, 2004 Posts: 163 Location: Land of the Tonkawa/Karankawa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
I present for your enjoyment: A very interesting military analysis of the conflict
... hopefully no one has posted it yet.
It's a hoot! _________________ Collapse-prep Intentional Community forming outside of Austin, TX. PM me if interested.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
the more I read about this war the more upset I get. Why do we still use google if they suppress information?
Why do the Europeans stay in the NATO if it serves only US (or neocon) interests?
I never liked Putin but now I have to defend this guy!
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2025 Location: Australia
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
alokin wrote:
the more I read about this war the more upset I get. Why do we still use google if they suppress information?
Why do the Europeans stay in the NATO if it serves only US (or neocon) interests? I never liked Putin but now I have to defend this guy!
Because a lot of people still haven't understood that mainstream media is a propaganda tool. They believe what they read.
I was tearing my hair today reading Swedish aftonbladet again and this time they had a female foreign relations expert commenting. Her summary was also that Russia attacked Georgia because Georgia wanted to be part of NATO. Full stop. Nothing about any attacks by Georgians.
I have to admit after this I am considering starvids advise and stop reading this nonsense. When I grew up Aftonbladet was considered leftist but now they seem to have fallen into ranks with the neocons. _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
...One final note - in all this, let it not be forgotten that during the fighting, Ossetian civilians were either killed or driven out en masse. Of course, Georgian civilians, too, turned into refugees, especialy those who had been living in South Ossetia - but at least Russian or Abkhazi contingents did not specifically train artillery and tanks on towns and villages for days on end (at least, none of the sources on the ground, from either side, report any incidences of this sort of thing except for those committed by the Georgians).
The UN War Crimes Tribunal judges had better have cleared their calendars for the next couple of years...
That was great.
I'd love to read this same operational account - and know some of the high-level political stuff going on as well. Despite the tragedy of war, its got a comedic element that a wit like James Kunstler could send up pretty well. _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Russia Georgia Ossetia Alkhazia Ukraine War
Russia has issued new, reduced casualty figures for the Georgian conflict, with 133 civilians now listed as dead in the disputed region of South Ossetia. The figure is far lower than the 1,600 people Russia initially said had died.
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