Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1473 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Reverse Engineer, you have a place to bug out to, right? Because if you're just heading off somewhere it's not a good plan. And there's always the matter of timing (sure as your gas goes bad or you run one of your SUV's below half, that's when TSHTF).
The corollary to bugging out to a known location is making sure someone else hasn't taken it over first.
To all you searching the wild for a hideout: that lovely abandoned cabin in the woods might be someone's bugout lair, and they're not going to be happy to see you when they show up with their guns and friends. (but if you have more guns and more friends it might work... ) _________________ Conservation is conservative
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4590 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
TWilliam wrote:
A phenomenon common to humans that I've noted over the years is that most people, when given a choice between a painful situation that they're familiar with and an unknown situation which might be even more painful --even if it could potentially be entirely enjoyable-- will choose to remain in their current unpleasant circumstances, rather than taking a chance on the unknown and possibly greater pain. Women who stay in abusive relationships for years are a common example.
Most people prefer to prolong a miserable life as long as possible rather than willingly opt for that Ultimate Unknown we call death...
Joined: Sep 29, 2005 Posts: 456 Location: I heard we are not the real America..Eugene, Oregon.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Out of all my family and friends, I have only one person that might be able to pull it off. This person has spent the last 20 years deep in Patagonia, training young people to survive out in the middle of no place, etc....he's seen it all and does not mind being out there alone. That said, I doubt he would actually bug out...due that he's left his trekking days behind... (with an occasional venture to lead folks into the wild for the NRDC) and is settled off the grid in Homboldt County and is quite satisfied with that.
So of everyone I know (tossing in some mountaineers and guys who take helicopters to the top of mountains to snowboard down)...just one qualifies in my book....and it looks like he's ok just being off the grid.
cb _________________ Punk is not really a style of music. It was more like a state of mind.
-Mike Watt
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Another thing to consider for bugging out is how the locals will treat you when you get there. Where are you plannning on going to ? If you are an outsider, say from NYC, and you plan to go a few hours into a very rural area, you may not be greeted with open arms,no matter if you are several people or not. It is one thing to vacation in an area, maybe even own a vacation something there. Locals, however, probably don't really have anything in common with you, and probably resent/dislike you if you scratch the surface. One skill to have that you cannot pack in a duffle bag is the ability to win people over, to get along with them. On some forums, people speak of bugging out as if there are no people in the areas that you will be going to. If you are going there, most likely there are people there already who see it as home. Die off or no die off, chaos or not, these are people who have settled there, some for generations. Just remember that.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Shannymara wrote:
ReverseEngineer wrote:
OK, shoot it full of holes
Impassable roads will develop quickly around any major city in a SHTF situation. You would have to get out before the general population was aware there was a serious problem.
The "Katrina we can't even evacuate in Schoolbuses" problem.
Absolutely true, you would have to at least be 1 day ahead of everybody else in figuring out TSHTF. That is why you have the trailer packed all the time and the SUV topped off on gas all the time. You want to be able to walk right out the door of your house the MINUTE you hear over the radio "President McCain has repealed Habeus Corpus and all Americans are required to report to the local Police Station for their radio tag ID collars".
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5719 Location: Body in OK, Heart in TX
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
ReverseEngineer wrote:
You want to be able to walk right out the door of your house the MINUTE you hear over the radio "President McCain has repealed Habeus Corpus and all Americans are required to report to the local Police Station for their radio tag ID collars".
I thought they undermined Habeus Corpus already (search for it on these forums, there's a thread somewhere). As far as radio ID - don't you have a cell phone? Sure, it's voluntary. Nothing to worry about.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
RedStateGreen wrote:
Reverse Engineer, you have a place to bug out to, right? Because if you're just heading off somewhere it's not a good plan. And there's always the matter of timing (sure as your gas goes bad or you run one of your SUV's below half, that's when TSHTF).
The corollary to bugging out to a known location is making sure someone else hasn't taken it over first.
To all you searching the wild for a hideout: that lovely abandoned cabin in the woods might be someone's bugout lair, and they're not going to be happy to see you when they show up with their guns and friends. (but if you have more guns and more friends it might work... )
The scenario I wrote was for the city dweller not quite able to move out yet as a better alternative than staying in the city and waiting for the Zombies or the Cops to get you. Its a prep you could make in a couple of trips to Walmart.
Also true is that to really get so far out that you won't find a house for miles generally means somewhere near a State or National Park. So if you have no relationship with the locals, you certainly could have a problem with that.
Joined: Oct 03, 2004 Posts: 566 Location: Washington State
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
I am reminded tonight that the best laid plans.....
You might have a perfect bug out location
you might have an unlimited budget for preps
you might have a network of like-minded individuals for support
one lightning strike ends everything.
Lincoln county 15,000 acre wildfire. Level 3 evacuation.
Hawk Creek, if you are reading. My prayers are with you and your neighbors. PM me if you need anything. I know what you are facing. We almost were burned out before we finished building. _________________ This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
Highlander 2007
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Cashmere wrote:
I don't think it's a myth. I think it's very doable. Think about it. Thousands of men did it when the country was being colonized (invaded).
There are plenty of fairly vast, forested areas where you can disappear into the forest. Life would be difficult. And simple. Very simple.
I guess my perspective is this . . . I don't love my own life enough to want to protect it by living in the woods by myself for the next X number of years. Simple as that for me.
I've never got that about people. I met some 70 year old guy who was desperate to live. I'm thinking, "why?" What the hell is it about being on this parasite infested sh1t-hole of a planet that you find so endearing? 70 years isn't enough?
That's a funny sad kind of post. I kind of agree with your sentiments sometimes, though.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
A few things:
1. The mountains are often not a great place to go to as they are low in edible animal and plant resources. They do have snow, running water, and timber generally though.
2. It is good to be rich. Having a garden in the country with a fish pond, chickens etc would help.
3. A lowland coastal environment would have more ediple plant and animal resources. There are still some along the American River, the Olympic Peninsual rivers, and the tidal zones. The last have extensive shellfish colonies.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Shannymara wrote:
ReverseEngineer wrote:
You want to be able to walk right out the door of your house the MINUTE you hear over the radio "President McCain has repealed Habeus Corpus and all Americans are required to report to the local Police Station for their radio tag ID collars".
I thought they undermined Habeus Corpus already (search for it on these forums, there's a thread somewhere). As far as radio ID - don't you have a cell phone? Sure, it's voluntary. Nothing to worry about.
DEFINITELY, leave the Cell Phone behind along with anything else that connects to computer networks. Do NOT sign on the Internet from ANYWHERE, on ANY computer.
You can keep CB radios, analogue ones over the FRS digital Walkie Talkies, but keep them powered down unless absolutely necessary.
I would even worry about "recommended Flu AntiViral Injections" supposedly for the purpose of protecting you from Bird Flu. Who knows WHAT is being pushed into your system through that needle. I'll take my chances with my own immune system.
Far as Habeua Corpus already being repealed, yea in practicality I realize it has been. However, at a certain point here I think that the government will take extreme measures of some kind that are clearly indicators that its time to BUG OUT. I used Habeus Corpus as an example, but its probably not a good one.
For this Disaster, this is one reason the roads won't necessarily clog up. Many if not most people will still be in denial, and they won't consider the most recent removal of their individual rights to be "worthy" of Bugging Out and taking your chances in the Wilderness with all your gear. This is where Critical Thinking skills can save you. You have to grasp when your LAST CHANCE has come to get out before you are TRAPPED.
Its up to each individual to make that decision, to say to themselves, "Its GONE. I HAVE to GET OUT NOW!"
I made that decision 2 years ago, a little early I guess. Its still possible to get out. How much longer though I cannot predict.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
highlander wrote:
I am reminded tonight that the best laid plans.....
You might have a perfect bug out location
you might have an unlimited budget for preps
you might have a network of like-minded individuals for support
one lightning strike ends everything.
Lincoln county 15,000 acre wildfire. Level 3 evacuation.
Hawk Creek, if you are reading. My prayers are with you and your neighbors. PM me if you need anything. I know what you are facing. We almost were burned out before we finished building.
This problem actually shows why the MOBILE solution is better than the "put all your eggs in one basket" idea of picking a single place to invest all your money in and build a Survival Palace.
What if when TSHTF your spot is the one hit by drought or by wildfires? You invested all that money in planting yourself in that location, but OOPS, it turns out to be a bad choice!
Putting together a Mobile Gypsy Community might be better. At the Last Minute, you can choose the best spot. Have a few Alternative Destinations. Your main limitation would be the total amount of gas you could store and transport to get you to the destination.
Its pretty hard to predict absolutely which area will provide the best security and best overall survivability. The longer you can maintain some OPTIONS here, the better.
As a former Big Rig driver, I could take this one a step further, and say if you really had the financial wherewithal, rather than building in one place NOW, a better choice might be to outfit 10 to 12 tractor trailers with everything you can buy to set up a community anywhere in the country. Load em up and be ready to move out in a Convoy. Pick your spot and "circle the wagons". Patrol the Perimeter in your 4 wheelers and on Horseback with the horses pulled by one of the Big Rigs. Shoot to Kill.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Ludi wrote:
ReverseEngineer wrote:
I bet your little community could last 2 or 3 years, and after that much time, the rest of the Zombies will have mostly Perished.
What if they haven't conveniently Perished? You've just been camping, not living, in the wilderness, and have only prepared to camp for 2 or 3 years, so - now what if you can't conveniently resupply from civilization? Resupply with what, anyway? Wouldn't the Zombies have eaten all the food, used up all the ammo?
This is just what leaps to mind as holes in this plan.
After 3 years, with a complete breakdown of the transportation infrastructure, the chances of many Zombies being left alive is small. They will only be able to live so long consuming each other. Remembr, they have no stored food, they will burn up the canned food they loot in a matter of weeks.
You definitely wait as long as possible before venturing inward. Why do it? Well, after the Zombies have killed each other off, the scavengers return to feast off the rotting flesh, and the Deer return to eat the growing grass over the parking lots. You probably find better hunting than in your own neighborhood which might be running thin on game.
You may run into other Tribes doing the same thing. You might exchange some children to maintain genetic diversity in your tribe. They might be making something you don't know how to make, you might be making something they don;t know how to make. You might establish a mutually beneficial Trade arrangement.
Such is how society MIGHT be rebuilt in the Aftermath. Eventually, you gotta come out of your hole. Just you want to stay safe in your hole as long as you can.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1473 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
ReverseEngineer wrote:
For this Disaster, this is one reason the roads won't necessarily clog up. Many if not most people will still be in denial, and they won't consider the most recent removal of their individual rights to be "worthy" of Bugging Out and taking your chances in the Wilderness with all your gear. This is where Critical Thinking skills can save you. You have to grasp when your LAST CHANCE has come to get out before you are TRAPPED.
Its up to each individual to make that decision, to say to themselves, "Its GONE. I HAVE to GET OUT NOW!"
I made that decision 2 years ago, a little early I guess. Its still possible to get out. How much longer though I cannot predict.
Reverse Engineer
Get out to where, though? Another country? Some mythical place in the US where no one can find you? I'm not sure what you're talking about. _________________ Conservation is conservative
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1473 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
ReverseEngineer wrote:
Putting together a Mobile Gypsy Community might be better. At the Last Minute, you can choose the best spot. Have a few Alternative Destinations. Your main limitation would be the total amount of gas you could store and transport to get you to the destination.
Its pretty hard to predict absolutely which area will provide the best security and best overall survivability. The longer you can maintain some OPTIONS here, the better.
This is a good idea, something I've been thinking about recently. It might be good for those of us in drivable proximity to each other to network. If one is burned out or flooded out, they can take their portable preps and go to the other's place. The chances of everyone in a geographic region (say your state and the states/countries surrounding you) being similarly affected is lower the more people you have in the 'club'. _________________ Conservation is conservative
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin
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