Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Aug 24, 2005 Posts: 442 Location: Costa Geriatrica, Spain
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
mos6507 wrote:
skeptik wrote:
Thought we were discussing oil rigs and windmills.
Environmental impact is a big part of the OCS drilling debate.
Right. Different subject. Nothing to do with dead zones then. Environmental impact of offshore drilling. Any conclusions yet?
Strangely enough you'd never get permission for onshore drilling in the UK on the scale seen in the USA, but there haven't been any serious problems (apart from the Piper Alpha disaster which resulted in major loss of life, but no significant pollution) with offshore UK drilling over the last 40 years.
Joined: Jul 12, 2007 Posts: 46 Location: Mississippi, USA
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
The fast crash scenario has a "shock" factor. The real problem we have is denial. The issue is not how many wells we can drill but how can we get away from oil alltogether. I fully support offshore windmills or onshore for that matter. Fast crash will mean there is still oil available for building windmills. Slow crash means by the time we start building there will not be enough energy left to support the construction.
I also support new drilling but we need to use the energy gained to construct alternatives. The prevailing attitude is...drill more wells, get more oil, problem solved. But no matter what, eventually the oil will run out.
The only way to convince people to change their ways is to hit them in the wallet HARD AND FAST!!! A slow crash will not do that. _________________ A horse is like a motorcycle that loves you back!
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
Quote:
The fast crash scenario has a "shock" factor. The real problem we have is denial. The issue is not how many wells we can drill but how can we get away from oil alltogether. I fully support offshore windmills or onshore for that matter. Fast crash will mean there is still oil available for building windmills. Slow crash means by the time we start building there will not be enough energy left to support the construction.
I also support new drilling but we need to use the energy gained to construct alternatives. The prevailing attitude is...drill more wells, get more oil, problem solved. But no matter what, eventually the oil will run out.
the argument from a sustainability standpoint makes sense until you realize if you are counting on thousands of windmills for your energy needs there is also going to be a lot of maintanence requirements. How are you going to power the maintanence boats?, what about lubricants for the moving parts?
My guess is the only possible answer involves a host of cascading alternatives (nuclear, wind, water, etc) that each have a market niche.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
KingM wrote:
baha wrote:
OK, so I was bored....
Someone want to check my work??
Easy enough to debunk. Thunder Horse is a huge project, not a single well. If you had 44 THs to add in the US alone, you'd triple American production of crude.
I don't know about the economics of offshore wind, but your back of the envelope math doesn't invalidate it.
But the advantage of Thunder Horse is it is a single location. Much like the THUMS project in Los Angeles. There are three drill islands. The biggest is 12 acres and the other three are 10 acres each. However they have drilled more than 1,200 from those sites and continue drilling today.
Environmental safety really isn't a factor on offshore drilling. The view obstruction is a big issue. I would rather look at a couple of offshore platforms rather than hundreds or thousands of windmills.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
VMarcHart wrote:
skiptamali wrote:
Does anyone here have extensive experience in wind turbines?
I do. What's up?
How feasible is it to put them 15+ miles off US coastlines? Is the technology there? What happens if a hurricane hits? What's cost of installation & maintenance like? Lifespan on an offshore windmill?
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
skiptamali wrote:
How feasible is it to put them 15+ miles off US coastlines?
It depends on the soil condition. The Atlantic is still very shallow 15 miles offshore, whereas the Pacific can be significant deeper. The shallower the easier.
skiptamali wrote:
Is the technology there?
Generally yes, but the problem is not the technology; it's our insane and unstoppable demand for energy. Also, it doesn't work to produce electricity offshore Florida and transmit it 2,000 miles to Minnesota.
skiptamali wrote:
What happens if a hurricane hits?
Some blades may break, it may cause excessive stress to the tower, perhaps the foundation, but if they fall, nobody will be hurt and it is easily salvable.
skiptamali wrote:
What's cost of installation & maintenance like?
I can't give details, but slightly higher installation cost than land-based, with perhaps less wear and tear on the clutch and gearbox because of the steadier wind regime.
skiptamali wrote:
Lifespan on an offshore windmill?
About 30 years.
skiptamali wrote:
Glad you showed up.
Glad to serve. Let me know if you need anything else.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
Offshore wind farms is far from a theory in Texas (largest producer of onshore wind generated e in the US). Some time ago the state awarded, after competative bidding, offshore wind farm leases off the coast of south Texas. Now that the winners have the right it will be interesting to see if they can finance the follow through. Maybe V knows something about the winners.
Looks like we'll be leading the nation in offshore wind farm development now too. As well as drilling more wells: this weeks lease sell brought in over $450 million in lease bonuses for the Feds.
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
ROCKMAN wrote:
Offshore wind farms is far from a theory in Texas (largest producer of onshore wind generated e in the US). Some time ago the state awarded, after competative bidding, offshore wind farm leases off the coast of south Texas. Now that the winners have the right it will be interesting to see if they can finance the follow through. Maybe V knows something about the winners.
Thanks for the credit. Alas, I didn't participate in those deals. Offshore wind is great, but only goes so far. I'm sure you can inject into ERCOT South, and thus into all ERCOT --constraints permitting--, but evidently it will not go outside ERCOT. Off Beaumont/Port Arthur you can sell into Entergy, and that's about it.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
V,
It will be intersting to see if the offshore players snag the state like ole Boone did. You do know that he didn't have a buyer for most of his w Tx wind output? Last month the state PUC authorized a $4.5 billion line to haul his juice to Dallas. That's why he got the land so cheap: no competiton. Who would build a wind farm where there's no market for the output? And they're still growing the feed grass and running the cattle under the turbines. How's that for being green.
Damn...I wish I had as much smart as Boone has in his little finger.
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?
ROCKMAN wrote:
Damn...I wish I had as much smart as Boone has in his little finger.
I find it hypocritical that a man who made so much money on feeding America's addition to oil, puts out a massive plan to cut the addiction, will make even more money on the solution, and will come out as the savior. Outrageous!
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