Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
smallpoxgirl wrote:
Roccland wrote:
The contents of Tyler's BOB:
I know this might shock you, so you might want to sit down. Some of us aren't quite as certain that the world is going to end tommorrow as you are Rocc. Some of us actually think there might be a working internet and electricity for a few more years yet and we're looking at investing from a slightly different perspective than just ordering supplies for a BOB.
Really?
And guess what SPG - some people think 47 story buildings just drop out of the sky.
Tell ya what...
If Dr. Duncan is wrong - great!! I look silly.
If not - YOU lose big. _________________ 500 MPH into a brick wall - me
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
I don't get how people who acknowledge PO could possibly think that anything could be a better investment than PMs, other than hands-on skills, ammo, land, good health, and the ability to produce food.
ETFs to me are like trading a magical box that contains the world's most amazing object inside, but the amazing object happens to be invisible. In reality, it's just an empty box.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
Roccland wrote:
If not - YOU lose big.
You can spend your whole life fretting about the million terrible things that could happen or you can make your best assessment, do the best you can, and realize that in the end, you're going to die. That's it man. The best and the least prepared in the end both end up the same place. Six feet under. I'm not going to live my life being a neurotic wreck about all the bad things that might possibly happen to me but probably won't. You can't prepare for everything and if you could, you'd still end up just as dead. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
smallpoxgirl wrote:
Roccland wrote:
If not - YOU lose big.
You can spend your whole life fretting about the million terrible things that could happen or you can make your best assessment, do the best you can, and realize that in the end, you're going to die. That's it man. The best and the least prepared in the end both end up the same place. Six feet under. I'm not going to live my life being a neurotic wreck about all the bad things that might possibly happen to me but probably won't. You can't prepare for everything and if you could, you'd still end up just as dead.
Actually - facing fate is rather relaxing.
You should try it sometime. _________________ 500 MPH into a brick wall - me
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
Jotapay wrote:
ETFs to me are like trading a magical box that contains the world's most amazing object inside, but the amazing object happens to be invisible. In reality, it's just an empty box.
I'm not sure I would agree with your analogy, but honestly, even if it were correct, it really doesn't matter as long as nobody realizes the box is empty until I've sold it. PM's aren't something that have any particular value to me. They're basically little hunks of shiny metal as far as I'm concerned. They're no more useful to me than an arcade token or a casino chip. I'm only interested in PMs because other people want them and will give me interesting stuff for them. That's the same reason I'm interested in ETF shares. I can't do anything interesting with either of them except to try to sell them for something that does have value to me. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
Roccland wrote:
Actually - facing fate is rather relaxing.
You should try it sometime.
Fate is your gonna die.
All the stories about how it's gonna happen...that's just fiction until you get there. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Joined: Mar 18, 2008 Posts: 466 Location: Upstate New York
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
smallpoxgirl wrote:
I'm not sure I would agree with your analogy, but honestly, even if it were correct, it really doesn't matter as long as nobody realizes the box is empty until I've sold it.
And therein lies the problem.. You are taking a risk that you won't be stuck holding the empty box. Its like a sadistic game of musical chairs in my opinion.
It happens.... Argentina 2000-2001. Of course the entity that was left without a chair in this case was the whole Argentinian public.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
smallpoxgirl wrote:
I'm not sure I would agree with your analogy, but honestly, even if it were correct, it really doesn't matter as long as nobody realizes the box is empty until I've sold it. PM's aren't something that have any particular value to me. They're basically little hunks of shiny metal as far as I'm concerned. They're no more useful to me than an arcade token or a casino chip. I'm only interested in PMs because other people want them and will give me interesting stuff for them. That's the same reason I'm interested in ETF shares. I can't do anything interesting with either of them except to try to sell them for something that does have value to me.
Exactly. I totally agree. Diamonds and gold to me are just rocks (minerals) basically. But people will give you stuff for them, as you noted. However, I deem them more useful for getting stuff from people in the long run that a piece of paper (ETF). In the the short term, sure, I guess ETFs can possibly earn you some cold hard cash, but momentum indicates ETFs (paper) are screwed in the future.
This thread reminds me a little bit about the "What do you drive?" thread from about a month ago. I was a little surprised that 80-90% of responders drive cars. Sometimes big ones. I asked, "What will you do when gasoline starts to be rationed?" One person responded and replied, "Walk." It seems to me that someone who had prepared a bit more would have secured some mode of transportation which would better handle the fury of PO when it hits. Bike, scooter, anything. It surprised me a bit. All indicators point to ETFs being junk soon, but still people hang on.
One more note about mines and what comes out of them: I read recently that diamond and gold mines in South Africa have closed due to energy shortages there. Will this be a trend in the future?
Tyler and Smallpoxgirl, your seem to suggest that you aren't interested in living or don't think that you will be alive past the current stage of civilization, past functioning markets, modern currency and what have you. Are you just not interested in preparing for what lies after that then?
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
Jotapay wrote:
Exactly. I totally agree. Diamonds and gold to me are just rocks (minerals) basically. But people will give you stuff for them, as you noted. However, I deem them more useful for getting stuff from people in the long run that a piece of paper (ETF). In the the short term, sure, I guess ETFs can possibly earn you some cold hard cash, but momentum indicates ETFs (paper) are screwed in the future.
your PMs will be just as screwed if this becomes the PO doomer-slide into olduvai. at that point, cigarettes, vodka, bullets and canned beans will be worth more than shiny bits of metal.
as far as i am concerned, i think smallpoxgirl has got it right.
Joined: Mar 18, 2008 Posts: 466 Location: Upstate New York
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
nobodypanic wrote:
your PMs will be just as screwed if this becomes the PO doomer-slide into olduvai. at that point, cigarettes, vodka, bullets and canned beans will be worth more than shiny bits of metal.
as far as i am concerned, i think smallpoxgirl has got it right.
Your right. Vodka, bullets, food will be king but at least the shiny metal that has never had a value of zero is worth more than that piece of paper / digital bytes.
Nobody knows how this is going to play out. All my preparedness might be silly if nothing happens and we sail into the sunset on fusion powered vehicles... But if anything upsets this fragile experiment we call "civil/modern society" then my preps will mean a better chance for my family. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst and it will probably be somewhere in the middle.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
nobodypanic wrote:
Jotapay wrote:
Exactly. I totally agree. Diamonds and gold to me are just rocks (minerals) basically. But people will give you stuff for them, as you noted. However, I deem them more useful for getting stuff from people in the long run that a piece of paper (ETF). In the the short term, sure, I guess ETFs can possibly earn you some cold hard cash, but momentum indicates ETFs (paper) are screwed in the future.
your PMs will be just as screwed if this becomes the PO doomer-slide into olduvai. at that point, cigarettes, vodka, bullets and canned beans will be worth more than shiny bits of metal.
as far as i am concerned, i think smallpoxgirl has got it right.
You are assuming there will be a total across the board collapse, where EVERYONE will be reduced to extreme poverty. An economy will survive in some fashion, and the few with means will still value anything they consider somewhat scarce. Even lousy bits of cloth retain value, based on perception. Look at that lousy rag of canvas the Mona Lisa is painted on. I wouldn't count on ETF's though. You want to be able to reach out and touch PRECIOUSSSSS.....
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
nobodypanic wrote:
your PMs will be just as screwed if this becomes the PO doomer-slide into olduvai. at that point, cigarettes, vodka, bullets and canned beans will be worth more than shiny bits of metal.
Yep, that's why I have many more of the things that I listed above (food, ammo, land, skills) which I deem more important than PMs, than I have of PMs.
Skills > food/ammo >= land > PMs/cash > paper investments
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
Jotapay wrote:
All indicators point to ETFs being junk soon
Obviously I don't agree with that or I wouldn't be interested in them. I think there is a clique here, that tends to become just as self-referential and out of touch with reality as the proverbial Fox news viewer. Reality is that it's not going to be business as usual, but it's not going to be blood in the streets of America any time soon either. There's a big gap between car-pooling and starving to death.
Frankly I think that the value placed on PM's right now is highly arbitrary. I don't feel much confidence at all that central banks won't decide to unload and drop the price 75%. There's no particular reason PM's have value (beyond being shiny). It's just that everyone agrees they do. Same way they agree ETF shares have value. As far as I'm concerned the major risk in holding metals etf's is in the price of the metal collapsing, not in the financial system coming unglued. The financial system isn't going to collapse tomorrow. Gold could easily drop $100/oz tomorrow. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: For those of you on the metals sideline...best jump onbo
smallpoxgirl wrote:
There's no particular reason PM's have value (beyond being shiny).
But they have been used as currency and had value continuously for 4,000 years. Personally, I am making a bet that this will remain true for the rest of my lifetime. Fiat currencies, not so much.
And I hope you're not equating me with a Fox News viewer. I get my news from the Daily Show, thank you very much (not really, I actually don't have cable TV). I think you're trying to say any group can be incestuous in its self-reinforcing ideas, with which I agree. It happens on this PO forum too.
Last edited by Jotapay on Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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I think you're trying to say any group can be incestuous in its self-reinforcing ideas, with which I agree. It happens on this PO forum too.
