Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
OSLO, Norway (AP) — Russia has informed Norway that it plans to suspend all military ties with NATO, Norway's Defense Ministry said Wednesday, a day after the military alliance urged Moscow to withdraw its forces from Georgia.
NATO foreign ministers said Tuesday they would make further ties with Russia dependent on Moscow making good on a pledge to pull its troops back to pre-conflict positions in Georgia. However, they stopped short of calling an immediate halt to all cooperation.
The Nordic country's embassy in Moscow received a telephone call from "a well-placed official in the Russian Ministry of Defense," who said Moscow plans "to freeze all military cooperation with NATO and allied countries," Espen Barth Eide, state secretary with the Norwegian ministry said.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
eXpat wrote:
Russia to cut all military ties with NATO
There was a time in the early 90s when I thought we might one day have Russia in NATO. Things were that hopeful then.
But nah, we pissed it all away to get Latvia and Romania, and now we've stumbled over what, Georgia. Christ. We could have had everyone if we'd just thought to put the horse before the gawdamm cart. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Situation is definitely heating up, to complement the previous post, NATO headquarters in Brussels have received notification that Russia is halting military cooperation (link), if that is not enough, in addition NATO has been warned by Russia against re-equipping Georgia's military (link)
Quote:
BRUSSELS, Aug. 20 (Xinhua) -- Russia's ambassador to NATO Dmitry Rogozin warned Wednesday NATO against filling the gap of losses of the Georgian military incurred in its conflict with Russia.
"Any attempt of NATO to fill the gap of losses of the Georgian army contradicts the conventions of the OSCE (Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe)," Rogozin told reporters.
All NATO countries, Russia and Georgia are members of the OSCE.
He said the provision of strategic armament to Georgia and the flight of NATO reconnaissance planes along Russia's borders as requested by Georgia are regarded as hostile actions to Russia.
He warned that these actions may make Russia change its position on its relationship with the West, including military cooperation and on Moscow's policy on Iran.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Nickel wrote:
eXpat wrote:
Russia to cut all military ties with NATO
There was a time in the early 90s when I thought we might one day have Russia in NATO. Things were that hopeful then.
That would be quite funny, with potential for one NATO member invading another one aka Turks & Greeks. Silly girl.
Seems to me there are an awful lot of countries out there that aren't quite ready to be stable members of NATO. This begs the question: why are we in such a hurry to usher them into a blood and iron military alliance? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Nickel wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Nickel wrote:
eXpat wrote:
Russia to cut all military ties with NATO
There was a time in the early 90s when I thought we might one day have Russia in NATO. Things were that hopeful then.
That would be quite funny, with potential for one NATO member invading another one aka Turks & Greeks. Silly girl.
Seems to me there are an awful lot of countries out there that aren't quite ready to be stable members of NATO. This begs the question: why are we in such a hurry to usher them into a blood and iron military alliance?
because US want EU to either fail or be its bitch, and Russia isolated.
When US lead the "new Europe" countries into a confrontation with the Russia, the "old Europe" have 2 choices.
1.stand-by and face criticism from US and "new Europe" countries, this will effectively divide the EU into 2 blocs and lead to its eventual break-up, and allow US to insert itself between Russia and "old Europe" and control the pipelines between the two.
2.join the assaut on Russia and lose access to Russian energy supply, which will force EU to become dependent on US controlled middle east oil.
actually there is a 3rd choice for "old Europe", which is to ditch US and invite Russia in, but that's only theoretic and seems inconceivable at the moment, though in my view, that's the only way to a greater unified Europe with peace and strength.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Very good post gmin,the US hate EU and want it to be weak.
The more countries the EU has the more difficult it is for them to act.
In my opinion the EU should define Europe as a cultural boundary,which definitely excludes Georgia for example.
Trying to have good relationships to Russia.
Don't know what to do with NATO, anyway it serves only US interests.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
alokin wrote:
Very good post gmin,the US hate EU and want it to be weak. The more countries the EU has the more difficult it is for them to act. In my opinion the EU should define Europe as a cultural boundary,which definitely excludes Georgia for example.
Trying to have good relationships to Russia. Don't know what to do with NATO, anyway it serves only US interests.
US is not just targeting EU, it's target every country on this planet. Every country that's not a core ally of the US (UK, Israel, and maybe Australia) faces the same 3 choices or a combination of themb: destabilization, control by the US, or isolation. And isolation is only allowed for the big boys, i.e. Russia and China, and only after the first 2 options have proved futile.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Russia plans to stay in Georgia. General: Long-term checkpoints coming. By Sergei L. Loiko and Borzou Daragahi Tribune Newspapers August 21, 2008:
Quote:
MOSCOW — Russia plans to establish a long-term presence inside Georgia and one of its breakaway republics by adding 18 checkpoints, including at least eight within undisputed Georgian territory outside the pro-Russian enclave of South Ossetia, a high-ranking Russian military official said Wednesday.
The checkpoints will be staffed by hundreds of Russian troops, the official said, with those in Georgia proper having supplies ferried to them from breakaway South Ossetia.
If implemented, the plan would effectively put under Russian control the border between Georgia and South Ossetia, which is seeking independence, as well as a small chunk of Georgia proper.
"This is the essence of it," Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the army general staff, told reporters at a briefing. He showed maps detailing the proposed Russian positions, one just outside the Georgian city of Gori, which lies along a crucial juncture of the country's main east-west highway.
"The president ordered us to stop where we were," he said. "We are not pulling out and pulling back troops behind this administrative border into the territory of South Ossetia."
The plans appear to violate the terms of a French-endorsed cease-fire deal signed late last week by the presidents of Georgia and Russia. It called for both countries' troops and allied armed groups to move back to the positions they held before hostilities led to a Russian military incursion early this month.
Russian officials insist the deal allows them to keep troops along the South Ossetian-Georgian border as well as within Georgia proper as part of a peacekeeping mission begun in the 1990s. The Russians say their peacekeeping mandate gives them access to a "security zone" along the border.
At the United Nations on Wednesday, Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin circulated a draft resolution calling for the Security Council's endorsement of the cease-fire plan promoted by French President Nicolas Sarkozy. U.S. Deputy UN Ambassador Alejandro Wolff made it clear that Washington opposed the Russian initiative. He said it was "designed to rubber-stamp a Russian interpretation" of the cease-fire that the West rejects.
Western envoys at the UN supported a French draft resolution Monday calling for immediate Russian withdrawal from Georgia. But Russia blocked it. The 15-member council did not debate the rival Russian draft.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
gmin wrote:
Nickel wrote:
Seems to me there are an awful lot of countries out there that aren't quite ready to be stable members of NATO. This begs the question: why are we in such a hurry to usher them into a blood and iron military alliance?
because US want EU to either fail or be its bitch, and Russia isolated.
When US lead the "new Europe" countries into a confrontation with the Russia, the "old Europe" have 2 choices.
1.stand-by and face criticism from US and "new Europe" countries, this will effectively divide the EU into 2 blocs and lead to its eventual break-up, and allow US to insert itself between Russia and "old Europe" and control the pipelines between the two.
2.join the assaut on Russia and lose access to Russian energy supply, which will force EU to become dependent on US controlled middle east oil.
actually there is a 3rd choice for "old Europe", which is to ditch US and invite Russia in, but that's only theoretic and seems inconceivable at the moment, though in my view, that's the only way to a greater unified Europe with peace and strength.
Agreed. So much of what is happening now involves moves by the US to preserve it's hegemonic control or expand it, as leader, never as partner. A united Europe throws up an impediment to this end goal.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
When Russia recognizes the independence of Abkhazia on Monday, it will recognize the Akkhaz/Georgian border to be the Inguri river.
Abkhazia considers their territory to historically extend to the Inguri river. This will result in Georgia itself losing territory with regards to the previous border with Abkhazia.
A few dozen fighters from Abkhazia moved into Georgian territory Wednesday, planting their flag on a bridge over the Inguri River in a brazen challenge to Georgian sovereignty.
"This is Abkhazian land," proclaimed one of them. They said they were laying claim to what has historically been Abkhazian territory.
The fighters had crossed a thin slice of land dotted with Georgian villages and planted their red, white and green flag at what they say is the traditional frontier between Abkhazian and Georgian territory.
"The border has been along this river for 1,000 years," official Ruslan Kishmaria said at the bridge.
He said Georgia would have to accept the new border.
link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3359 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Cid_Yama wrote:
When Russia recognizes the independence of Abkhazia on Monday, it will recognize the Akkhaz/Georgian border to be the Inguri river.
Abkhazia considers their territory to historically extend to the Inguri river. This will result in Georgia itself losing territory with regards to the previous border with Abkhazia.
A few dozen fighters from the separatist region of Abkhazia moved into Georgian territory Wednesday, planting their flag on a bridge over the Inguri River in a brazen challenge to Georgian sovereignty. "This is Abkhazian land," proclaimed one of them. They said they were laying claim to what has historically been Abkhazian territory and that Georgian troops left without challenging them.
The fighters had crossed a thin slice of land dotted with Georgian villages and planted their red, white and green flag at what they say is the traditional frontier between Abkhazian and Georgian territory.
"The border has been along this river for 1,000 years," separatist official Ruslan Kishmaria said at the bridge. He said Georgia would have to accept the new border. link
And I believe they also seized a hydro electric dam on the river as well. _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
And I believe they also seized a hydro electric dam on the river as well.
I would have too. Contrary to the western media, Russia is not withdrawing from Georgia completely. Russia is leaving behind peacekeeping 'outposts' to ensure Georgia will never re-arm. They continue to this day working to destroy the entirety of Georgia's military infrastructure. Russia intends for Georgia to be, and remain totally disarmed. Condolezza Rice's statements to the effect that Russia has failed and that the US will re-arm Georgia better than before is the biggest crock I have ever heard. Let's just see them try. _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
Syria offers Russia an opportunity to punish Israel, US
President Bashar al-Assad landed in Russia on August 20, less than two weeks after the South Ossetia war started. Sending a strong message to the Russians ahead of his trip, he spoke to the Russian Kommerstant newspaper, "On this issue [of South Ossetia and Georgia] we fully support Russia. The Americans continue their Cold War policies ... The war, which was unleashed by Georgia, is the culmination of attempts to encircle and isolate Russia." He added, "Georgia started the crisis, but the West is blaming Russia. Everywhere there is total disinformation, distortion of facts, and international attempts to isolate Russia."
He then added, "The Caucasus and Europe are impossible without Russia ... I think that after the crisis with Georgia, Russia has become only stronger." He wrapped up saying, "It is important that Russia takes the position of a superpower, and then all the attempts to isolate it will fail."
The Russians, thrilled at the statement of support they were waiting to hear from a traditional friend, reciprocated with words and lucrative offers of arms. "Our position is that we are ready to cooperate with Russia in any project that can strengthen its security," added the Syrian president.
Perhaps explaining Assad's strong support for the Kremlin is a statement by General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff of the Russian army, who accused Israel of arming Georgian troops with "eighty types of military vehicles, explosives, landmines and special explosives for the clearing minefields". In his interview, Assad noted, "I think that in Russia and in the world everyone is now aware of Israel's role and its military consultants in the Georgia crisis. Before there were people in Russia who thought these forces could be friendly. Now I think no one thinks that way."
The Russians need little convincing from the Syrians. They realize how involved both the United States and Israel are in the situation in the Caucasus. The fact that Syria is being courted by the French, the Turks, the Germans and the Qataris makes it even easier for the Russians to cooperate with Damascus.
There are many in Russia who undoubtedly would love to punish the Israelis for supporting Georgia, a proxy punishment for the United States. Prime on the list is Putin. The Americans, apart from big words coming from the White House and State Department, would never confront "the great red army that defeated Hitler" for the sake of non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization member (at least not when the crisis erupted). They also have to take into account Russia's international influence, the amount of damage it can inflict if it decides to wrestle with the Americans, and the fact that it provides Europe's main oil and gas supply. link
Russia knows it has Europe by the short and curlies, and is just waiting for it to get cold outside for a little demonstration. _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1620 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Cold War heats up with a vengence
gmin wrote:
because US want EU to either fail or be its bitch, and Russia isolated.
Well, "we" isn't just the US. I've got to think that the traditional European members have got to be looking at one another by now and wondering what's up. As Eric Margolis said, Georgia is a bridge too far for NATO. And that's just been underlined for us. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
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