Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
i am sure the US navy is just quaking in it's shoes.
Quote:
Now a word about the Admiral Kuznetsov carrier. Launched in 1989, it has spent most of its life under repair. When an attempt was made to use it in sea trials in 2003, it started to sink. Once in 2004 and twice in 2005 landing accidents incapacitated it for long spells. And all that was accompanied by fires and multiple failures of the propulsion machinery.
The ship is a classic mess with every part of it rotten or diseased.
Just to complete the picture, here is a telling report from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies: As of 2004, Russia had only 12 pilots capable of flying deck-based aircraft. Consult this memo: An aircraft group of Russia's "rival" has 3,000 elite-trained pilots, all put through grueling tests.
Yet even if one air-capable group is built, armed and manned, there will be nowhere to base it, to say nothing about supply or repair. Out of Russia's four fleets, only the Northern and the Pacific ones can handle aircraft carriers.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
Quote:
it isn't chess, it's poker.
It's Bush we're talking about.
I wouldn't think tic tac toe was a sure thing.
Maybe Candy Land. Just draw the card and move. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
I just had this mental picture of Bush playing "paper, rock, scissors" against himself...
-G _________________ I Have and will continue to vote against ANY politician who supports the various bailouts. Curse you for selling out our future for status quo now!
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
Somebody wrote,
Quote:
Just to complete the picture, here is a telling report from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies: As of 2004, Russia had only 12 pilots capable of flying deck-based aircraft. Consult this memo: An aircraft group of Russia's "rival" has 3,000 elite-trained pilots, all put through grueling tests.
But the Russians are self sufficient in oil for their 12 pilots and the "rival" is not. _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 2608 Location: South of Atlanta
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
pup55 wrote:
Silly Russians. What's the point?
If my measurement on Google Maps is right, It's only about 500 miles between Syria and Russian territory. That's a few minutes' flight for one of their Mach 2.8 fighters.
It's the US that has the 8000 mile supply chain.
500 miles is actually quite a long way when your thinking about use of tactical air power. They cant fly at those speeds for anything more than very short duration without extremely shortening combat time and range. Unless the Russians can field a host of other aircraft to support the carrier operations this ship is little threat.
The US carrier battle groups and the extensive supply networks, bases, and chains which already exist are robust and practiced. Most carrier battle groups are self sufficient even at high tempo ops for at least several days. I doubt US supply chains would be threatened by anyone at the moment.
500 miles equates to 1,000 round trip. The Admiral Kuznetsov does not carry a varied airwing with Strike, Reconnaisance, ASW, EW, tankers, and Electronic warfare aircraft. It only carries a handful of Strike aircraft. This amounts to nothing more than a potential embarrassment for the Russians should they decide to employ it for any longer term operation.
I'm guessing the US Navy is chuckling slightly as they watch. I do believe they only have a handful of pilots even qualified to fly on and off that rust bucket.
I'd predict several accidents and extremely limited capability should they decide to even try to attempt some sort of combat operations.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that Battlecruiser's damage potential. Since severely reducing the size of their operational fleet, Russia has concentrated training and maintenance on its most powerful and capable ships.
While the Kuznetsov battle group stands little chance by itself in the Mediterranean sea, if push comes to shove its AAM and ASM stocks (not to mention the hidden subs following it) can lay waste to an entire U.S. Carrier battle group in a burst attack, not to mention denial of the seas, airspace interdiction (with the help of its embarked fighter squadron) and possibly the capability to severely damage important traffic choke points like the Suez Canal, power plants, pipelines, etc. Even if it lasts only one day, you can bet that their sinking comes with a hefty price tag.
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 2608 Location: South of Atlanta
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
35Kas wrote:
if push comes to shove its AAM and ASM stocks (not to mention the hidden subs following it) can lay waste to an entire U.S. Carrier battle group in a burst attack, not to mention denial of the seas, airspace interdiction (with the help of its embarked fighter squadron) and possibly the capability to severely damage important traffic choke points like the Suez Canal, power plants, pipelines, etc. Even if it lasts only one day, you can bet that their sinking comes with a hefty price tag.
I'm pretty sure every one of the subs (and suport ships) following that rust bucket has at least one US sub shadowing it if it gets within a thousand miles of any US battle group.
Its got some very minor potential to sting a battle group but its fantasy to think it could "lay waste" to anything but another Russian navy ship.
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
Oh yes they most certainly are being shadowed, but tell me now, once they get to where they are going, what prevents Russian Navy from using active sonar from its helos to sanitize the area of subs? I mean in the sense of knowing where they all are.
Regardless of your absolute discredit of the Russian's hardware, a swarm of 30-40* SS-N-19s and SS-N-12s streaking your way is the only thing in the world that can get through an Aegis system (of 2 CGs and 2 DGs), save ballistic missiles (and maybe torpedoes), and score hits.
Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 3983 Location: In a van down by the river
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
It is all about politics the Russians are just saying, that if you are going to get buddy buddy with Nations that oppose us we will do the same to you.
But overall the Israelis are the ones ywho are worried the most about this, if Russia helps arm Syria nothing can stop them short of all out war. Israel's only advantage is technology, if the Russian's start giving the Syrians their best stuff Israel's conventional advantage is taken down a peg.
Putin is one scary sob, all the dissidents and critics of his that end up dead. People jumping out of their windows after bringing home the groceries, people having a little poison with their shashimi.
If the Russian's reach out and do something overt like this with Iran then I think we have a major problem on our hands.
But overall it looks like everyone is getting their pieces in place for the final battle. Hopefully it is years away.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Russia sends aircraft carrier to Syria
I doubt that Russian carrier would survive for long if confronted by American battle groups.
However American carriers are of not much use either in US v. Russia war.
That is outdated technology, good to intimidate countries lacking advanced surface-surface missiles technology.
In conflict between technologically advanced nations (and Russia should be considered as such) aircraft carriers are just floating coffins.
Not more, not less.
All of them would be sunk within first days of all out conflict, even without resorting to tactical atomic weapons (albeit these would certainly be used is some difficulties in sinking them unexpectedly occurred).
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