Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
derekj wrote:
I wish I could wake in my shelter of some sort, go outside, pick a melon for breakfast, work in the garden, do something else productive for the rest of the day (like canning corn for the winter or repairing the bearings on my makeshift wind generator), and eventually sit around with my family and eat fresh white corn until midnight. To me, thats the perfect life. And maybe one day I can live that.
Sounds too good to be true....and it is for many reasons.
Here is my plan in a simplified version:
In highschool I knew I did not want to work at a labor intensive job making barely above minimum wage. So I went to college.
I worked hard for my grades and I worked part-time during the semester and full-time during the summers even though my parents supported me financially 100%. I was working to put the work experience on my resume and it gave me extra money to invest.
It paid off because 5 months before I graduated from college the company I worked for the previous summer offered me a full-time job with great pay and benefits. I compared it with other offers from other companies and then took the job.
I grew up in New Mexico and my family has a cattle ranch there. I always dreamed of living on the ranch but financially it made no sense. Our operation is small compared to the major cattle producers. So my plan was to work and save as much money as possible and "retire" from the corporate world as soon as possible and move back to the ranch.
I max out my 401k and Roth IRA contributions each year. I definitely want to prepare for retirement even though it is a long way off.
I save and invest around 40% of my income which does not include retirement or my house. My long-term goal is I would like to generate about $3,000 per month from returns off my investments without touching the principal.
In the mean time I am reading/studying about homesteading. Unfortunately I can't put much into practice right now but I am gaining a lot of knowledge through books such as Living on a Few Acres and magazines such as Mother Earth News, Hobby Farm, etc...
I suggest setting up a plan and getting advice from your parents, friends, and others. Just don't jump into something, get ruined psychologically or financially, and kill your dreams.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
derekj wrote:
I have a problem. I'm 17, basically a drop-out and plan on getting my GED in the next month.
The GED is an absolute must. How long before you turn 18. I Googled "Apprenticeships" and "Mechanical Apprenticeships". Lots of good stuff out there. link
Check it out. Also, if your are concerned about PO there
are some good sustainable living apprenticeships out there: link.
The internet is a wonderful thing.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
You have to go back and read what YOU wrote. You dont want to work hard, or discipline yourself nor move away but build a shack on your dads land and chill out til the end comes.
There is no answer in that. Its a plan, no doubt, but a bad one.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
Consensi wrote:
Check it out. Also, if your are concerned about PO there are some good sustainable living apprenticeships out there: link.
These are good IF you already own a piece of land that is ready to be lived on and ready to be farmed.
The major problem with these apprenticeships is they are extremely low paying. You could gain a lot of experience/knowledge but you won't be able to save enough to buy your own land and get yourself up and running. You will be working and living on someone elses property for decades if not forever.
joeltrout
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1473 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
I have a 17 year old who's in a similar position. Bright, talented, hates school and doesn't know what she wants to do with herself. She'll graduate, but that's about it.
I haven't been pressuring her to do anything, as I don't know what sort of career will be useful ten or twenty years from now. She's going to have to live with what she chooses, just like you will.
Since you seem to like working with cars, I think the advice to get a job at a mechanic's place is a good one. See if you really like the work. If you do, then look around. Vocational school should not cost that much, and you should be able to get some sort of financial aid. In fact, I wouldn't go to any college that didn't offer financial aid, and I wouldn't go into debt to pay for schooling, it just doesn't make sense anymore.
There are free websites that can help you get scholarships that aren't dependent on grades. Also, see if your parents will help pay for your schooling. I bet they will if you ask without making it an argument, which at your age might take a bit of getting your head on straight first as far as your relationship with them, but is worth it if you get a degree out of it.
You have a lot of options. But sometimes if you're not sure about a career then a year or two working helps you focus in on what you want and gets you a network of people in the field, if you decide on going into mechanics. Once you've worked some, furthering your education can make a lot more sense to you. You can even take a class or two every semester (the ones that sound interesting) and work at the same time. It is not as black and white as you're making it out to be.
What might help is writing down everything you're good at or that you like, and anything that sounds fun, no matter how outlandish. Sometimes a combination of things will jump at you suggesting a business or career you hadn't considered. There are a lot of websites that can help with choosing a career that you might take a look at.
You have some money in the bank and you have a year before you get kicked out, if I'm reading you right. Scope things out -- don't spend any of your money right away. If anything, a short term CD as investment (like 6 months) is a reasonable thing, just until you get figured out what you want to do.
As far as house/land, look at foreclosures. Some are going for less than $10k for a house and land both. You'll need to have your parents' help in actually buying if you're underage when you find what you want, but it might be worth looking into. Or even a couple acres of land should be doable under $10k, depending on where you live.
But the worst thing you can do is piss off your parents or make them think you've gone psycho/druggie. They feel responsible for you, they care about you, they're legally responsible for you ... it's a complicated thing. They want you to succeed and are probably terrified that you'll waste your life or end up homeless or something. People are very cruel in this world, and your parents will be judged harshly and blamed for your mistakes or lack of fitting in to the mainstream.
Just some things to think about from someone on the other side.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
joeltrout wrote:
derekj wrote:
I wish I could wake in my shelter of some sort, go outside, pick a melon for breakfast, work in the garden, do something else productive for the rest of the day (like canning corn for the winter or repairing the bearings on my makeshift wind generator), and eventually sit around with my family and eat fresh white corn until midnight. To me, thats the perfect life. And maybe one day I can live that.
Sounds too good to be true....and it is for many reasons.
name 1 reason?
If thats his dream, and he's willing to work to make it happen (which he has said he is), he WILL SUCCEED. And not only succeed but be happy, family oriented, low stress, FREE, and probably wealthy.
Override your left brain and FEEL derek. thats where the answers come from. I have a similar dream to you and I gave you some advice in the first response i posted to this thread. _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
joeltrout wrote:
These are good IF you already own a piece of land that is ready to be lived on and ready to be farmed.
I have to disagree. These apprenticeships are great if you plan to farm some day. I read a lot about farm interns who went on to buy their own farms and found the experience gained from internships very valuable. Some farmers will pay up to $500 per month plus room and board. The education is invaluable. So are the friendships he would no doubt make.
Knowing what I know today I would do something like this if I were a teen confused about the future and not sure about what to do. Maybe Derek should stop reading the posts that worry warts like us keep posting about the future ???
Are we really the ones responsible for his dread of the future ?
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
Skeymoore wrote:
Consider a career in renewable energy, such as wind power, solar power, or geothermal. These will burgeon in the next few years
I completely disagree with this statement. Wind/Solar/Geothermal are all for production of electricity. Electricity is not the problem.
When it gets to the point where coal becomes so expensive that blackouts become common, then wind/solar/GT will be far too expensive to implement. They are tangential players now and they'll always be tangential players.
The only future these technologies have is limited by the extent to which venture capitalists mistakenly invest in it or to the extent the .gov uses tax money to "subsidize" it. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
MadScientist wrote:
name 1 reason?
He has less than $15,000 to his name, he does not own any land basically is living under his parents. Where is his source of income?
One big expense he will incur is HEALTH INSURANCE. If you don't have health insurance and hurt yourself you are screwed financially. Even simple dentist bills can add up quickly.
joeltrout
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
Consensi wrote:
joeltrout wrote:
These are good IF you already own a piece of land that is ready to be lived on and ready to be farmed.
I have to disagree. These apprenticeships are great if you plan to farm some day. I read a lot about farm interns who went on to buy their own farms and found the experience gained from internships very valuable.
Where do they get the money to start their farm. Farms aren't free and start-up cost can be high especially if you have to build a house (no matter how small), barns, seeds, livestock, farm equipment, insurance, property tax, etc....
Consensi wrote:
Some farmers will pay up to $500 per month plus room and board. The education is invaluable.
After health insurance and general expenses how much would he have left over. Almost nothing or maybe even debt each month.
Consensi wrote:
So are the friendships he would no doubt make.
There is no doubt about this. He will meet some of the best people and some of the most resourceful people. BUT he still has to save up money somehow.
joeltrout
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
joeltrout wrote:
MadScientist wrote:
name 1 reason?
He has less than $15,000 to his name, he does not own any land basically is living under his parents. Where is his source of income? One big expense he will incur is HEALTH INSURANCE. If you don't have health insurance and hurt yourself you are screwed financially. Even simple dentist bills can add up quickly.
You'll have a hard time winning this one with me joel.
#1 lack of savings or income:
What are his expenses? I would guess minimal. Lets just say he can "survive" on $1000 a month. Quite feasible in many rural areas of the US. That's $250 a week. That's an $8/hour job for 40 hours a week. 8 hours a day to "survive" and 8 hours a day to grow wealth. (your personal definition of wealth. for some people its dollars and for some its pickin melons with the kids). A good understanding of personal finance and personal discipline means a lot. the two books i recommended in my first post are the key to a life of freedom imo.
#2. health insurance. i havent had health insurance in 12 years. I've paid cash when I needed medical care. A plan for me ran around $400/month x 12 months = $4800 dollars. If you have a policy you pay that even if you never use a bit of it. Put that money in a savings account and its yours until you need it. Do that for 10 years and you have almost $50,000 of insurance sittin in the bank.
Even better is when you educate yourself about HEALTH, so you dont get sick hardly ever and know how to help your body heal when you do. SOme basic first aid knowledge and pain management skills help as well.
any other reasons why its impossible to live his dream? The old way has to go. It failed. F. lose. How can anyone who believes in the topics we discuss here daily advocate going to college? playing it safe? get a good job sonny boy! /pat _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
MadScientist wrote:
#2. health insurance. i havent had health insurance in 12 years. I've paid cash when I needed medical care. A plan for me ran around $400/month x 12 months = $4800 dollars. If you have a policy you pay that even if you never use a bit of it. Put that money in a savings account and its yours until you need it. Do that for 10 years and you have almost $50,000 of insurance sittin in the bank.
Even better is when you educate yourself about HEALTH, so you dont get sick hardly ever and know how to help your body heal when you do. SOme basic first aid knowledge and pain management skills help as well.
So what would you do if you broke your leg working in the field?
Pay cash for surgery??? That works great on year 10 but what about a $15,000 medical bill on year 2? Spend all your savings?
joeltrout
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: I have a problem
joeltrout wrote:
MadScientist wrote:
SOme basic first aid knowledge and pain management skills help as well.
Look here for some 2005 cost of medial procedures that "some basic first aid knowledge and pain management skills" won't help.
I have no doubt you are convinced it's impossible to live without medical coverage. I assure you, it is not. You hold the key to your own prison.
Quote:
So what would you do if you broke your leg working in the field?
The worst accident I've had was falling into a basement and breaking a couple ribs. I didn't go to the doctor's for about 3 weeks. Finally I went to see one cuz I was havin a hard time sleeping. The doc took xrays, told me nothing was wrong, and refused to give me any pain medication. And then charged me $250.
major medical can happen. I realize that. My ex-wife got cancer. In that time of emergency, we got help from family, the hospital, our church, and the local government.
Anything besides fear of life without health insurance? You try and make it sound like we might as well all just shoot ourselves as soon as peak oil hits. Or are you saying we'll always have modern medical services?
Let's just say for moment that health insurance is indispensible. Derek while single would be about say $250 a month for a decent policy. So he has to make an extra $1 an hour at his job. Is $9 an hour unreasonable?
Do you really want to try and prove that "living off the fat of the land" with your loved ones is "too good to be true" joel? _________________ "The future power is manpower"
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