Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
I don't WANT it to happen, but I know it WILL happen. Since I know it will happen, I'd rather see it happen sooner than later. The longer it takes to happen, the more damage gets done of course.
I am morally against a slow crash, because in a slow crash scenario the rich hold their power and don't suffer near so much as the poor do. In a fast crash, the rich are brought to their knees rapidly, the vast majority of them end up as poor as a typical welfare recipient.
Poor folks can deal with deprivation, its what a poor person lives with always. Rich folks go belly up when confronted with real survival quandaries. Its my great hope that it all crashes so fast it takes the Hedge Funds down and takes the governments down as well. The poor folks ALREADY suffer, it won;t be much worse for them. It will be REAL bad for those used to flying around in Private Jets though. Sorry, no Jet Fuel available! Landed at LaGuardia, no fuel, take your chances with the Zombies. Good Luck.
The faster it crashes, the more the rich will suffer. The Republican nincompoops who sold our country down the toilet deserve to Burn in Everlasting Torment in the Fires of Hell, and the faster the economic system goes toast, the more likely they suffer the same deprivations as they have forced on the poor throught the oil era. Scum Sucking Bottom Feeders every last one of them, who deserve nothing better than Brimstone and Torment, for All Eternity.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
This is an interesting post/topic.
I too feel glee when the finance talkies say oil went up. But like another poster said, "I don't want PO to hapen, but it will happen"
The american people still think everything is hunky dory, as do all the politicians. It is comical to listen to them.
What I really find funny is that as we know oil will get more expensive, magazines and internet sites, and car adds are advertising the new Camaro and Challenger coming out in 2009/2010. Like gas is going to be cheap. I actually saw an advertisement at a marina boat dealer near me saying buy a bigger boat, gas is sure to come down. hahahahahahahahah
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3542 Location: On the ball
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
Sellis1012 wrote:
... I want PO to happen. It is like somebody is holding a gun to my head. I want them to shoot already!!! I don't think I can endure a slow, painful descent...
You are definitely confused. The "Peak Oil" you are looking for doesn't exist.
"Peak Oil" is not some apocalyptic event, it's just the peak of oil production. It will likely play out over many years.
Do you really think this apocalyptic event you so desire will release you from your hatred of life? I've got news for you my friend, you haven't a clue.
You should seek counselling. _________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
MD wrote:
Sellis1012 wrote:
... I want PO to happen. It is like somebody is holding a gun to my head. I want them to shoot already!!! I don't think I can endure a slow, painful descent.
You are definitely confused. The "Peak Oil" you are looking for doesn't exist. "Peak Oil" is not some apocalyptic event, it's just the peak of oil production. It will likely play out over many years.
Do you really think this apocalyptic event you so desire will release you from your hatred of life? I've got news for you my friend, you haven't a clue. You should seek counseling.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in a sea of doom. My original post has everything to do with the anticipation of PO the economic event, not peak oil, the definition. Nowhere should you be reading between the lines that I hate my life. My post was triggered by spending the day helping a family. They had a big house, he got laid off. The house got foreclosed on. They moved into an apartment and he took the only job he could find that wouldn't require his wife quitting her job at IAMs and his son switching schools. The job was 45 minutes away. Then gas prices went up, and now they are getting evicted from their apartment. He has taken a job as a manager at Burger King. So, PO the event is beginning. The peak oil I am looking for exists. And yes, it is going to be slow and painful. Call me sick, but I just would rather get it over with. You surprise me. You've been on the boards since 2005 and yet your response was so incredibly ignorant.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
I would prefer a slow crash than a fast one.
Look : It's preferable to be aboard a sinking Titanic than beeing a passenger of one of the planes who hit the world trade center.
Slow crash means that you have more time. Time to prepare, time to enjoy current life and your family.
Slow crash also means that societies will try to adapt, even if solutions will look like "1984" or "Soylent green".
The worst thing is a fast crash. Then sure it's world war 3 or civil war or starving in the dark or going back to caverns.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
Sellis1012 wrote:
Thank you for being a voice of reason in a sea of doom. My original post has everything to do with the anticipation of PO the economic event, not peak oil, the definition. Nowhere should you be reading between the lines that I hate my life. My post was triggered by spending the day helping a family. They had a big house, he got laid off. The house got foreclosed on. They moved into an apartment and he took the only job he could find that wouldn't require his wife quitting her job at IAMs and his son switching schools. The job was 45 minutes away. Then gas prices went up, and now they are getting evicted from their apartment. He has taken a job as a manager at Burger King. So, PO the event is beginning. The peak oil I am looking for exists. And yes, it is going to be slow and painful. Call me sick, but I just would rather get it over with. You surprise me. You've been on the boards since 2005 and yet your response was so incredibly ignorant.
You call him the voice of reason & ignorant at the same time? Which one is it? lol.
I've known families like you describe my entire life, even when oil was abundant & cheap. On the plus side maybe they can get back on track & change their way of living before we have real shortages.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
JustaGirl wrote:
You call him the voice of reason & ignorant at the same time? Which one is it? lol. I've known families like you describe my entire life, even when oil was abundant & cheap. On the plus side maybe they can get back on track & change their way of living before we have real shortages.
Sorry, that first line was sarcasm. Yes, unfortunately there will always be people like that. My understanding is the last time there was this many at the same time was the great depression. No, I am not saying we are there. It will never happen that way again. The pendulum aways swings back, but never back to quite the same place.
And to reply to another poster, I too wish it were not so at all. When I first found out I had three Mustangs, hundreds of miniature cars and grand dreams of retiring and being an old guy with his old lady sitting in lawn chairs behind a Mustang at car shows.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
Sellis1012 wrote:
JustaGirl wrote:
You call him the voice of reason & ignorant at the same time? Which one is it? lol. I've known families like you describe my entire life, even when oil was abundant & cheap. On the plus side maybe they can get back on track & change their way of living before we have real shortages.
Sorry, that first line was sarcasm. Yes, unfortunately there will always be people like that. My understanding is the last time there was this many at the same time was the great depression. No, I am not saying we are there. It will never happen that way again. The pendulum aways swings back, but never back to quite the same place.
And to reply to another poster, I too wish it were not so at all. When I first found out I had three Mustangs, hundreds of miniature cars and grand dreams of retiring and being an old guy with his old lady sitting in lawn chairs behind a Mustang at car shows.
you are aware that the chances of you surviving a sudden collapse are pretty small, right?
quick is probably best for both the environment and anyone who comes through to the other side. i think that it'll be a long long grind to who knows where--maybe the bottom, maybe not.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
nobodypanic wrote:
you are aware that the chances of you surviving a sudden collapse are pretty small, right?
This is irrelevant. We ALL are going to die as individuals. What is important is not whether the individual survives a sudden collapse or not, but which is overall better for the Planet to survive, and for the Human Race to Survive.
A quick collapse shuts down the industrial machine, it kills off a large percentage of the population quickly. A slow collapse has us putting more Carbon up into the atmosphere for another 50 years. It has populations continuing to increase, even to the 9 Billion point. We might already have past the point of No Return, however its about certain if we spend 50 more years doing business as usual and pumping more babies onto the surface of the Earth its just not gonna stand up to it.
The Sooner the Better, far as the Earth and Human Existence is concerned. At least as long as the end game is not Global Thermonuclear Warfare.
Reverse Engineer
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
Sometimes I desperately want the future to lay all its cards out on the table.
...
Unfortunately, this ain't no card game. _________________ "By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
Cashmere wrote:
vilemerchant wrote:
alokin wrote:
I feel the same, but for other reasons. I think a crash of our industrial society is the only way we can save our climate and some of our natural resources. I know we will be all horribly poor, have no toilet paper, not enough to eat, hard work etc etc., but we have two littlelies and I don't want them dying in a hothouse.
I'll have toilet paper. I've been buying it by the truckload!
I'm thinking about it! On a brutally direct note, with no scatological intent, a better solution may be to change your diet to limit the need for toilet paper.
Yes indeed and brutally directly: as your avatar shows, the solution is to eat yourself so fat that you can't anymore reach to wipe your ass and hence, no more need for toilet paper...
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
Quote:
you are aware that the chances of you surviving a sudden collapse are pretty small, right?
quick is probably best for both the environment and anyone who comes through to the other side. i think that it'll be a long long grind to who knows where--maybe the bottom, maybe not.
As I have said elswhere, the real tragedy in a sudden collapse won't be in the dying, it will be in the living. And a theme in this thread that seems to be unfolding is that we are all going to die. Our lives are but a vapor. Here one second, gone the next. 1.3 trillion people have walked the face of the earth. How many can you name?
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
ReverseEngineer wrote:
A quick collapse shuts down the industrial machine, it kills off a large percentage of the population quickly. A slow collapse has us putting more Carbon up into the atmosphere for another 50 years. It has populations continuing to increase, even to the 9 Billion point. We might already have past the point of No Return, however its about certain if we spend 50 more years doing business as usual and pumping more babies onto the surface of the Earth its just not gonna stand up to it.
The Sooner the Better, far as the Earth and Human Existence is concerned. At least as long as the end game is not Global Thermonuclear Warfare.
Reverse Engineer
Hmm, I don't see it that way at all. We still have the SPR to tap & still produce millions of barrels of oil a day in the US. That would be enough to move NG & coal around for a bit and in a fast crash I can almost guarantee any environmental safeguards that are in place would go out the window as countries panic & struggle to keep things going. The only way all that would shut down would be a massive nuclear war, imo. At least in a slow crash things are still somewhat controlled with some thought for the environment. We have huge deposits of coal in my own state that aren't being used for environmental reasons. That would all go out the window.
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: I want it to happen
Dont wish away your life. If you dont live day to day you will miss the ride inbetween. We are set for some hard times and some of the most wonderful yet to come. There will be advancements like you have never seen driven by the demand. Always been that way. Might suffer a few pandemics along the way due to so many ppl in so little space. but overall, man will overcome
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