Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
The concept of wasting food offends me too, Alokin. But I'm suspicious of remediation efforts that emphasize minimizing waste without making any mention of the gross human overpopulation of this planet. There is a virtual news blackout on this subject.
Minimizing food waste may make us feel less guilty, but it solves nothing. Now, couple the reduction of waste with rational control of population, and then we're talking.
At the very least, we shouldn't cheer as a society every time a woman takes a fertility drug and has quintuplets.
We're mad, and like the mad people we are, we're going nowhere. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
lorenzo wrote:
Remember: more food = less people.
are you sure that it's just food, or is it more like wealth in general?
while it aggravates me that we're so wasteful, it's encouraging to know there's so much room for efficiency to make gains.
the one little thing that, however, gives me pause is, just how far can we realistically whittle away at that level of waste? is there any large scale society that has at any time brought their food use efficiency close to a hundred percent? you would think w/our modern advantages that we'd be able to do better, though.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3911 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
"Report: world throws away 50% of all food:" I think we can take some small satifaction(?) that this situation will not last forever. In fact, probably for not much longer. Keep an eye out for people queing up by the dumpsters. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
nobodypanic wrote:
lorenzo wrote:
Remember: more food = less people.
are you sure that it's just food, or is it more like wealth in general?
Sure, it's wealth in general, but it starts with a transition from agriculture-dominated societies to industry-dominated societies.
As a rule of thumb, this transition leads to mass migrations of rural populations to cities, and to an increasing agricultural productivity. In short, fewer people grow more food.
This brings with it a demographic transition towards lower fertility rates. And once the industrial sector begins to grow, the groundwork is there for a middle class to emerge.
This is a critical stage, as it is in this phase that crude, wasteful consumption of food and consumer products can be observed. People make fewer babies, but the babies eat much more, so to speak. This is the situation that can be found in countries like China, Brazil, and even the U.S. - most developing or moderately developed countries.
Finally, in a third and fourth stage, - the transition to a highly advanced, wealthy service and post-industrial economy - brings with it a new demographic transition towards population declines. Fewer people share much more wealth. This situation allows these wealthy societies to transition towards more environmentally friendly production processes. This is what is happening in the EU and Japan.
In short, it all starts with a transition from agrarian to industrial societies. And most of the poorest countries on the planet are still very much agrarian societies. They don't produce enough food, they have high fertility rates, and they don't have an industrial sector.
If they start to grow an industry, people will migrate to the cities, fewer farmers will be left, but they will become far more productive, and be capable to feed a smaller, but wealthier population.
In this historic sense, one can clearly say: more food = fewer people.
nobodypanic wrote:
while it aggravates me that we're so wasteful, it's encouraging to know there's so much room for efficiency to make gains.
Exactly. The new economies that are trying to become more sustainable, will see the creation of wealth in waste-reduction sectors - in many fields, be it in industry, energy, food production or agriculture.
nobodypanic wrote:
the one little thing that, however, gives me pause is, just how far can we realistically whittle away at that level of waste? is there any large scale society that has at any time brought their food use efficiency close to a hundred percent? you would think w/our modern advantages that we'd be able to do better, though.
It will require a complete rethink of the way we grow, process, transport and consume agricultural products. In each step of the chain, there is room for improvement. But this step-based approach might not fundamentally alter the systemic problems so typical of our industrial agro-food complex.
We might want to rewrite the entire code of the system.
And the societies who will begin to do this, are the wealthy societies, because they have the capacity to experiment with new systems that require large investments.
The poor societies are best served by the classic agrobusiness approach. Because this allows them to speed up their transition towards wealthier, industrial, service, and ultimately post-industrial societies. Once they have attained this level, they too can transit towards more sustainable models of food production. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
lorenzo wrote:
Let's throw away a bit less, shall we? Or maybe it would simply be better to make food more expensive, because now it is way too cheap, - people just throw it away like it's worth nothing. Maybe we should quintuple food prices, so people become a bit more sane.
The popularity of buffets, at least where I live, no doubt contributes to the problem. When I eat at these places I get frustrated at how much food is left on plates when people just up and walk out. Mostly teens, they will pile up food on their third plate and only eat a bit of it. Bad parenting.
The restaurants should charge an additional amount (per pound) that these people leave on the plate.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4594 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
Heineken wrote:
Not wasting food will not solve the problem of undernourished and starving people. Instead, it will actually increase their numbers.
We know the drill. But it would be nice to get a better picture of when die off has to occur. If there is enough food waste, it gives us a little more buffer room if that waste can be put to good use. _________________ http://doomsteaddiary.blogspot.com/
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
I worked in a department store once. We threw a lot away, food products, such as biscuits and fancy chocolates just because they were past sell by date.(None i nicked, and yes nicked, its still their property after they have thrown it out apprently, had gone bad) It's not just food, 1000s of candles, cookware, cusions, decorations and clothes of all sorts are just thrown out because they have not sold in the the last 9 season rotation period.
As if that was not enough, we had a number of 'tramps'(who living in the UK would have council houses) raiding our skip for all these goods so standard policy was changed to pour bleach over everything.
THEY ACTUALLY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO BUY BLEACH TO RUIN ALL THIS 'RUBBISH'.
We are doomed people. _________________ April 2008 Global Population: 6.8 billion
April 2010 Global Population: 7 billion
April 2012 Global Population: 7.2 billion
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
Lorenzo wrote:
Remember: more food = less people. A basic rule in the history of demography and economics:
The societies who have made the transition to low fertility rates now have enough wealth to become more rational, post-capitalist, efficient consumers. Japan and Europe are there.
The middle economies are the most dangerous, because they still have relatively high fertility rates, and very primitive capitalist consumer cultures, which wreck the planet. This is the U.S.
The low income economies, with their high fertility rates, need more food to lower their fertility rates. That's the first step.
The above statment makes no sense to me at all,, so all those starving folks in Dafor our doing just fine after all ?????????.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
Lorenzo wrote:
The middle economies are the most dangerous, because they still have relatively high fertility rates, and very primitive capitalist consumer cultures, which wreck the planet. This is the U.S.
We do not have high fertility rates in America,, avg american family has 2.2 childern, where is that high....
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
Not necessarily
lorenzo wrote:
Golgo13 wrote:
That just makes the population problem worse.
No it does not. Lower child mortality rates lead to lower fertility rates. Common people, these are real basics you find in any undergrad course on development or demography.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Report: world throws away 50% of all food
Quinny wrote:
lorenzo wrote:
Golgo13 wrote:
That just makes the population problem worse.
No it does not. Lower child mortality rates lead to lower fertility rates. Common people, these are real basics you find in any undergrad course on development or demography.
Not necessarily
Perhaps not necessarily, but definitively routinely. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
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