Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4996 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
Cashmere wrote:
I'm close to pulling the trigger on a strictly outside guard dog for the orchard, animals, and crops.
8' steel fence?
Wow.
Per tree. That's gotta be costly.
I agree SPG, at some point deer hunting licenses won't be checked quite as aggressively. We're probably not too far from that point either. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
allenwrench wrote:
When I woke op this morning I had found the trees shredded and ripped in half. All the pears had been stripped and the branches strewn around the yard. Sickening how nature works sometimes - they come in the night and I wake up to their destruction.
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
Mack12345 wrote:
Very sorry to hear of this . i bet those pears would have been WONDERFULL !
Im glad to see you are taking it like a champ though . Life throws us a lotta curves , just gotta accept it and roll with the punches .
Think of it like this though . The deer that lives today becase of the food it stole from your tree , might be dinner on your plate one day . In the end were all just part of a cycle . What we eat now has likely eatten us before and will likely consume us once more in the future .
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
jdumars wrote:
It's threads like this that make me feel so inert in the face of a true collapse. How is any of this sustainable? Deer populations are completely out of control thanks to the way public and private lands are managed. They can literally wipe out an entire crop in a night -- as they did with our beans. Turkeys can dig up and destroy root vegetables, especially mounded or mulched potatoes. Birds wipe out fruit trees. The only way any of this is prevented is through some techno-fix or sleeping in shifts, which still requires the use of flashlights, guns or whatever.
It's thinking about and experiencing all of this that has caused me to basically give up on any kind of prep. I have come to believe that the only thing that will save anyone is flexibility, a healthy body and a ton of luck.
Well, we can find a shimmering of hope in the fact that we still have stores to buy food and our efforts are just perfecting our education for when we may really need it
Skills need to be perfected best we can now not later. Once they are really needed they can be called upon without much effort. But, this is the sad thing about many people as well as PO'ers. Many of them are wasting valuable time they will need from learning practical application - thinking they can always learn later.
The time is NOW not LATER.
eastbay wrote:
What a drag. This will be a serious issue in coming years. What will people do when we no longer have access to barbed wire or other metal fencing? What did early settlers do to defend against deer? Did they sleep in the orchard with their dogs? Obviously there are other means of defending fruit trees against deer without laying out money for steel wire fencing.
But I have to wonder how those old timers survived, They had none of the things we have now to protect us from nature and they still seemed to kick nature in the ass. Oldtimers
So no use giving up...we just keep on trying the best we can. Survival is also about comfort...we try to be as comfortable as possible in uncomfortable circumstances. When we get too uncomfortable we can die. It is that simple
Flexibility and adaptation are two characteristics of the successful survivor. Some of us do a great job surviving catastrophes and some of us cannot even survive a stretch of hot weather and die.
It takes knowledge, dedication and action to be successful at it. Remember, knowledge without application is useless.
.
Last edited by allenwrench on Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
dog. urinate on the tree. put up random human noise makers.
not to say fences aren't good cause they keep out more than just deer.
Where I live their solution to deer herd overpopulation was to reintroduce the Wolf. It has reintegrated quite successfully and the population is growing aggressively. Wolves like to kill dogs so get a big one if you live up north. HOWLLLLLLLLLLLLL _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
My system for keeping deer away from fruit trees is as follows (I've written about this before here):
Buy a roll of welded (not woven!) wire four or five feet high, depending on how low your fruit tree sends out branches. It's not cheap but a 100-foot roll will protect quite a few fruit trees (you can also buy 50-foot rolls). You can buy either the lighter or the heavier gauge wire, as your budget permits. Heavier is harder to cut but lasts longer.
Cut the wire into a length that when rolled will make a circle about six feet in diameter (exact dimensions depend on the individual tree). Arrange the wire around the tree and use two wire plant ties to secure the ends. You now have a circle of wire around the tree that's easy to get in and out of through the "door." There's no need to stake the wire to the ground. It will stand on its own indefinitely.
Now cut off the top strand of wire all the way around, and bend the sharp ends outward all the way around at 90 degree angles.
A deer won't be able to jump over a fence that is so close to the tree, and it won't be able to browse the foliage because of the sharp ends of the wire. At worst, you might have occasional MINOR damage from very aggressive deer.
This system is fairly foolproof. I've never had deer damage to any of my trees I've protected in this way, and we're swimming in deer here.
Always wear eye protection when working with wire. And watch out for those sharp "palisade" wire ends when watering, picking fruit, etc. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 39 Location: The field
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
My suggestion is to not buy dwarf trees or trees on M111 stock. Get trees on, for example, sturdy Antanovka stock which will produce healthy, non-starved trees. Such trees are available from greenmantlenursery.com .
The size of the tree and its productivity is determined by the root stock, not the scion wood.
A tree on vigourous stock will grow taller than any deer could ever imagine, and they could not possibly eat the fruit, and pruning could protect the bounty from them by raising it higher. Vigourous trees produce an abundance of fruit, usually over 300 pounds per tree per year. Finally, the vigourous root stock will harden the tree against insects and diseases.
My trees on Antanovka grew from two inches this year to three feet, and I have been able to mitigate any pest and disease with three light sprayings of neem oil.
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
oxj wrote:
My suggestion is to not buy dwarf trees or trees on M111 stock. Get trees on, for example, sturdy Antanovka stock which will produce healthy, non-starved trees. Such trees are available from greenmantlenursery.com .
The size of the tree and its productivity is determined by the root stock, not the scion wood.
A tree on vigourous stock will grow taller than any deer could ever imagine, and they could not possibly eat the fruit, and pruning could protect the bounty from them by raising it higher. Vigourous trees produce an abundance of fruit, usually over 300 pounds per tree per year. Finally, the vigourous root stock will harden the tree against insects and diseases.
My trees on Antanovka grew from two inches this year to three feet, and I have been able to mitigate any pest and disease with three light sprayings of neem oil.
Thanks
Well, I only have a little land (2/3 acre) and have it go with dwarfs. But your idea sounds good for one that has some space.
Another problem is I may be to blame for some of this myself. When I eat strawberries or tomatoes once in a while in the garden, I throw the scraps out of my garden fence for a rabbit to eat. The scraps, albeit not that much, might attract deer. Maybe being too kind hearted is bad for one's own survival.
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
Heineken wrote:
My system for keeping deer away from fruit trees is as follows (I've written about this before here):
Buy a roll of welded (not woven!) wire four or five feet high, depending on how low your fruit tree sends out branches. It's not cheap but a 100-foot roll will protect quite a few fruit trees (you can also buy 50-foot rolls). You can buy either the lighter or the heavier gauge wire, as your budget permits. Heavier is harder to cut but lasts longer.
Cut the wire into a length that when rolled will make a circle about six feet in diameter (exact dimensions depend on the individual tree). Arrange the wire around the tree and use two wire plant ties to secure the ends. You now have a circle of wire around the tree that's easy to get in and out of through the "door." There's no need to stake the wire to the ground. It will stand on its own indefinitely.
Now cut off the top strand of wire all the way around, and bend the sharp ends outward all the way around at 90 degree angles.
A deer won't be able to jump over a fence that is so close to the tree, and it won't be able to browse the foliage because of the sharp ends of the wire. At worst, you might have occasional MINOR damage from very aggressive deer.
This system is fairly foolproof. I've never had deer damage to any of my trees I've protected in this way, and we're swimming in deer here.
Always wear eye protection when working with wire. And watch out for those sharp "palisade" wire ends when watering, picking fruit, etc.
Wont the deer push it around if it just sits there?
I like your 'palisade' design.
Is the wire in my photo above too thin for your design? I have been using plastic fence for the trees but planning on using the wire in the photo.
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 38 Location: east of west north of south
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
I have deer in my yard all the time and they never bother my trees at all. On the other hand I have to pick all of my fruit as soon as the temperatures start to drop or the bears will shred my trees.
Last year I made the mistake of leaving a box of Green Gage plums on the patio table over night.The next morning all that remained were a paw print on either side of the box and about 10 Lbs. of bear crap on my deck.
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1137 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
allenwrench wrote:
I have been eagerly awaiting to try some Asian pears and had some really nice ones on my new trees I had planted this year. I had fenced the trees off with heavy plastic fencing about shin to eye level high. Every day I would go in my back yard to examine them and check on their development, cradling the pears in my hand anticipating their ripening to fruition.
When I woke up this morning I had found the trees shredded and ripped in half....
That bites. Sorry to hear that. (I lost a lot of peaches to a late freeze, a bad windstorm, and a drought this year.) Mom Nature sure can be a drag sometimes. It tells me the deer don't have enough to eat in the wild. (That's one of the reasons I set up a deer feeder with corn--to give them an alternative to my garden.) If you could harvest one deer you would make up for the calories lost from the pears.
I know. Venison doesn't taste like pears. _________________ About my avatar: Guess.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13191 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
Heineken wrote:
This system is fairly foolproof. I've never had deer damage to any of my trees I've protected in this way, and we're swimming in deer here.
We also use welded/reinforcing wire in this way, and the trees are fine. I even fence small groups of trees within one fence and the deer don't want to enter these small areas (so far).
But we still plan to start eating them this fall. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1636 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
Cashmere wrote:
I'm close to pulling the trigger on a strictly outside guard dog for the orchard, animals, and crops.
8' steel fence?
Wow.
What I did was surround the orchard on three sides with 6 foot steel fence posts driven into the ground then extensions welded onto them. The bottom 5 feet of the fence is covered with cattle panel. Above that I have 2 strands of electric wire tape. This tape is 3 inches wide and the two tapes are about a foot apart and strung along the length of the fence. The open side faces into the yard toward the house. The dogs don't allow any but approved creatures into that area. This has worked fairly well for us. We have over 40 trees in the orchard and have only had damage to a few trees in the last 3 years. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
In our neck of the woods, you can legally shoot any wild/stray animal that is damaging your property. Deer/orchard, dog/chickens, dog/goat, elk/alfalfa field.
I've personally shot both stray and feral dogs in my chicken coops with a .22, and had Animal Control come and get the corpses.
Wifey got a German Shepard that was in the process of killing our pet goat with a 7mm Mag. (she used the first gun she found with shells to match, Good Girl).
Same neighbor, different dog went after my 5 YO kid, and I rolled it at 30 yards with a single shot from my .40 glock. He was pissed, but the animal control officer told him to F--- off, he was lucky he just lost a dog instead of a house. I'm lucky that I just happened to be working in the yard with a gun tucked in my pants.
A rancher in Northern NM shot something like 50 elk that were destroying his alfalfa field. No charges.
Talk to your local animal control officer, and find out what you can do.
And, if you want some asian pears, I've got several thousand pounds (kiefer) on my trees this year, and I'll send you a box of good ones if you PM me. I like to make wine out of them, but my liver can't keep up with the trees.
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Deer destroyed my Asian pear trees last night
PeakOiler wrote:
I know. Venison doesn't taste like pears.
Depends on what they've been eating. Couple of friends of mine found a road-killed juvenile black bear. It was in an area with a bunch of melon farms, and that bear definitely tasted like melons. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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