Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
For my family, McCain is a clear non-choice, but nonetheless, there appear to be a great number of people planning on voting for him. I'm genuinely interesed in hearing from McCain supporters why you plan on voting for him - I am not here to tell you why you're wrong, or what you havn't thought about.... I just want to know.
Hopefully others won't hijack this into a my-candidate-is-better war.
[ Edit - I know this is a sensitive topic, but I'm really hoping we can keep this civil, and on topic. If you're not planning to vote for Mccain, there's no reason for you to be responding to this thread. ]
Moved to America's Discussion. "Geopolitics: Discussions related to the global politics of energy use and acquisition."-FL
Last edited by hermit on Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 3068 Location: The Urban Village
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
hermit wrote:
For my family, McCain is a clear non-choice, but nonetheless, there appear to be a great number of people planning on voting for him.
He'll get a fair amount of votes and may even win. However the funny thing is none of the people who seem like they will vote for him, actually want to talk about him or his policies. They start threads on Obama and Biden and any other democrat they can throw some mud on. I've never seen anything like it. There are around 60 Obama threads already (most started by Mccain supporters I'll bet) so this will be interesting.
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 826 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
Agreed Dino.
Generally voting against someone seldom wins elections, see 2004. McCain is the first choice of only a very few people. But Obama seems to be the last choice for around 50%. BO should be doing much better in the poles. A unpopular president of the other party, a troubled economy, usually give several point advantage.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
I'm probably not going to vote at all or maybe vote for a 3rd party, but I don't despise McCain the way I do Bush:
He's for global warming legislation
Against drilling in the Arctic wildlife refuge
Prominant for campaign finance laws
Highly critical of initial conduct of the war in Iraq
Strongly against excessive government spending and deficits
For humane treatment and habeus corpus for Guantanamo prisoners
For alternative energy technologies
Don't you liberals remember you were begging him to run with Kerry 4 years ago? Short attention spans...
What I don't get is the enthusiasm Liberals have for Obama. I think that Bush has driven liberals so crazy they'll vote for someone with spasms of ecstacy who doesn't come close to sharing their positions:
Obama:
For international intervention, not non-intervention
For centralized power, not localization
Free trade, not protectionism
Voted for telecom immunity from warrantless searches
For drilling on the continental shelf _________________ One of these now am I too, a fugitive from the gods and a wanderer, at the mercy of raging Strife.
--Empedocles
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
I think a lot of people are uneasy about Obama's lack of experience.
Also, Obama ran on basically one issue: the Iraq war. That has faded for several reasons. One, the "surge" appears to be working. (I don't buy it, but most voters do.) Two, Bush & Condi are talking about setting a date. (For pulling the troops out, that is.) Three, the economy has become a much bigger issue all of a sudden. McCain's "Drill here, drill now" schtick is playing well with middle America.
Race and gender are also elements. Some people don't want a black guy in the White House, and some think Obama treated Hillary poorly. But I think class looms as a much larger issue. Obama comes across as an academic conehead. (Whether he is or not doesn't matter. It's how he comes across.) Democrats have been losing with candidates like that for decades.
For many Democrats, Obama’s eventual residence [in the White House] has long seemed a foregone conclusion. But cast your mind forward twenty years and imagine looking back on this election. Would it really seem strange from that vantage point if the first black major-party nominee—a guy with a thin resume, no foreign-policy credentials in an era scarred by terrorism, a background alien to much of Wonder Bread America, and the full name Barack Hussein Obama—lost? No, it would seem inevitable. That Obama has convinced us that the opposite outcome is even possible is testament to his many gifts.
I would also flip that around. If Obama didn't offer the exciting prospect of electing the first black president, we would clearly see him as a another McGovern or Dukakis, with better speaking skills and less experience. _________________ "The problems of today will not be solved by the same thinking that produced the problems in the first place." - Albert Einstein
Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 3068 Location: The Urban Village
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
And again, we already started with most points being about Obama. Does anyone know anything about McCain ?
I worry about Mccain's age combined with his traumatic 5 year stint being tortured and humiliated combined with his below average intellect. I agree he is not the ideolog of a Bush nor has he embraced the religous nuttery in his party - both good things. Nor do I think you need to be a great intellectual to be a good president. I just think of my Dad when he hit his mid 70's - in great shape physically but his brain did go through some changes - not all bad but mostly not good either - especially when situations and information is changing rapidly. You do lose mental agility.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
Obama - wants to expand the war in Afghanistan and wants to drain the SPR now.
McCain - wants to bomb Iran.
Fishman, like most Zionists, prefers McCain because he wants Iran bombed.
OP - there's no difference between McCain and Obama.
Therefore, anybody who has a preference demonstrates that he/she does not understand that there is no difference between the candidates.
Ahhhh. But the illusion of choice is so attractive . . . "I know the steak isn't really here, but it tastes soooooooo good." _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4996 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
Leanan wrote:
I think a lot of people are uneasy about Obama's lack of experience.
Also, Obama ran on basically one issue: the Iraq war. That has faded for several reasons. One, the "surge" appears to be working. (I don't buy it, but most voters do.) Two, Bush & Condi are talking about setting a date. (For pulling the troops out, that is.) Three, the economy has become a much bigger issue all of a sudden. McCain's "Drill here, drill now" schtick is playing well with middle America.
Race and gender are also elements. Some people don't want a black guy in the White House, and some think Obama treated Hillary poorly. But I think class looms as a much larger issue. Obama comes across as an academic conehead. (Whether he is or not doesn't matter. It's how he comes across.) Democrats have been losing with candidates like that for decades.
For many Democrats, Obama’s eventual residence [in the White House] has long seemed a foregone conclusion. But cast your mind forward twenty years and imagine looking back on this election. Would it really seem strange from that vantage point if the first black major-party nominee—a guy with a thin resume, no foreign-policy credentials in an era scarred by terrorism, a background alien to much of Wonder Bread America, and the full name Barack Hussein Obama—lost? No, it would seem inevitable. That Obama has convinced us that the opposite outcome is even possible is testament to his many gifts.
I would also flip that around. If Obama didn't offer the exciting prospect of electing the first black president, we would clearly see him as a another McGovern or Dukakis, with better speaking skills and less experience.
.... and would probably get trounced 60 to 40 in popular vote. As it stands there are enough who fall for his empty words and slick style and it'll probably be McCain by 55 to 45 instead.
The war has been by test issue for many, me included. This time BOTH candidates are approximately equal on NOT stopping the assorted idiotic US military occupations, although Obama sounds more aggressive about expanding the Afghanistan military occupation. Therefore, as far as the 'war issue' is concerned it really doesn't matter who you vote for. So we then move on to other issues.
For me, Obama is far too inexperienced and untrustworthy to hold such a high office. With a Democrat controlled Congress, real strives toward additional gun control will occur. Supreme Court appointments will reflect his wing of the Democratic party. I find that a bit concerning. Plus his really dumb comments regarding the SPR verify his poor judgement, so I'll be voting for someone else. I don't know who yet, but definitely not him or McCain. _________________ Got Dharma?
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6376 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
Its hard to take Obama's opposition to the Iraq War seriously when he picks Joe Biden as his VP, after Biden voted for the war. Whats the difference between Biden and Lieberman---they both voted exactly the same way!!
Lets face reality....the dems have controlled Congress for two years and its the the dems who have voted hundreds of billions of more dollars to fund the surge and keep the Iraq War going for the last two years.
I don't like McCain very much, but I can't get behind the dems fantasy world where the surge didn't work and the dems pretend they aren't the ones who control Congress and won't admit the dems are responsible for the war for the last two years.
Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 890 Location: Alif Lam Mim
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
Quote:
I'll probably vote Nader again (sigh...).
Damnit all to Hell! Now you're going to make me have to vote Barr. *mumbles obscenities as I walk away* _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 826 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el, “the Land of Israel”), and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.
Ok, Cashmere, yes I support a country that allows women to vote, provides far more freedom of its own people than any country around it. Bomb Iran, nah, not quite yet, lets suck'em dry first.
As to the delusion of a choice, you play with your delusions, I'll play with my delusions.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Interested in hearing from McCain voters.
Plantagenet wrote:
Its hard to take Obama's opposition to the Iraq War seriously when he picks Joe Biden as his VP, after Biden voted for the war. Whats the difference between Biden and Lieberman---they both voted exactly the same way!!
Lets face reality....the dems have controlled Congress for two years and its the the dems who have voted hundreds of billions of more dollars to fund the surge and keep the Iraq War going for the last two years.
I don't like McCain very much, but I can't get behind the dems fantasy world where the surge didn't work and the dems pretend they aren't the ones who control Congress and won't admit the dems are responsible for the war for the last two years. I'll probably vote Nader again (sigh...).
Why Plantagenet, I agree with you. It's almost as if you're saying the left and right, are wings of the same bird? But the surge working? Please...how the heck would we know what's really going on over there. There's information lockdown.
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