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3aidlillahi
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 875
Location: Alif Lam Mim
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 Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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Hardcore fuel efficiency
| Quote: | TORONTO - Air Canada's regional carrier Jazz is removing life vests from all its planes to save weight and fuel.
Jazz spokeswoman Manon Stuart said Thursday that government regulations set by Transport Canada allow airlines to use floatation devices instead of life vests provided the planes remain within 50 nautical miles of shore.
Safety cards in the seat pockets of Jazz aircraft now direct passengers to use the seat cushions as floatation devices. |
Wonderful. While planes don't go down that often now, higher fuel prices will cause (are causing) cuts in maintenance and repairs which could make decisions like these seem really stupid. Go Capitalism!
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Fishman
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 826
Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| Er, um, what does capitalism have to do with this? Do you think Aeroflot was the safest airline in the past? This is peak oil ramifications pure and simple. |
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3aidlillahi
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 875
Location: Alif Lam Mim
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| Quote: | | This is peak oil ramifications pure and simple. |
Right, because capitalism had nothing to do with PO or the effects that PO will have on this nation and economy. A non-capitalist nation would not have exhausted half of the world's oil in 100 years nor would it have increased its consumption nearly exponentially in this fashion. This would have allowed for a gradual contraction of oil supplies which wouldn't lead to such decisions by this company and others.
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Cochise
Tar Sands
Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 53
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| 3aidlillahi wrote: | | Quote: | | This is peak oil ramifications pure and simple. |
Right, because capitalism had nothing to do with PO or the effects that PO will have on this nation and economy. A non-capitalist nation would not have exhausted half of the world's oil in 100 years nor would it have increased its consumption nearly exponentially in this fashion. This would have allowed for a gradual contraction of oil supplies which wouldn't lead to such decisions by this company and others. |
3aidlillahi, what you described is the behavior of humans. Exploiting natural resource to the limit of depletion (and then beyond that) is what humanity has done for thousands of years, regardless of the adopted economic model.
But I agree with you that in the specific case you mentioned. When you let capitalism run so wild that profit is THE most important thing in the world, than everything else can be sacrificed, human lives included. |
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3aidlillahi
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 875
Location: Alif Lam Mim
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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Cochise, I never said that the behavior of humans isn't to engage in resource depletion; I was making the point that capitalism exploits the environment at the greatest possible pace of all economic models. That's even one of the pros that's always pointed out by capitalists - that it's the most efficient economic machine.
| Quote: | | A non-capitalist nation would not have exhausted half of the world's oil in 100 years nor would it have increased its consumption nearly exponentially in this fashion |
We saw what happened when the USSR went underneath. They still had vast potential for their oil production that went untouched until capitalism took hold which allowed for a double-peak. No other time has this occurred to my knowledge. Had there been a capitalistic economy in USSR at the time, then they likely could have hit even greater records of production: 15 mpd. Maybe even that famed 20 mpd! But the drop-off, ohh, what a douzy that would be.
Here I even acknowledge that we'd still have depletion if we had a non-capitalist society:
| Quote: | | This would have allowed for a gradual contraction of oil supplies which wouldn't lead to such decisions by this company and others. |
I'm still admitting that there'd be contraction (decline). However, this contraction would have been a yearly 0.5-1% or whatever rather than the likely 4-7% that it will be. Prices wouldn't spike so quickly => companies and people could adapt more easily => life jackets may be kept on board aircraft.
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Cochise
Tar Sands
Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 53
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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3aidlillahi,
i am not trying to defend capitalism (which we might as well call greedism) believe me.
I was just trying to see the problem from a different angle.
See, I like freedom, including economic freedom, so i also value the private initiative.
BUT! more often than not, private profit comes at expenses of public interest. A perfect example is the news you reported.
And i believe that favoring the profit of few corporation at expenses of the general public is exactly what democracy is NOT about. |
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Tyler_JC
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Joined: Sep 25, 2004
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Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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Life vests? They are a waste of money, fuel, cargo space, and time.
Do you know what happens to a weak aluminum tube (airplane) when it crashes into an ocean at 400 miles per hour?
If anyone survives the crash, it's a miracle. The notion that the entire cabin is going to strap on their life vests, calmly climb out of the exit doors and hop on an inflatable life raft is a joke.
In the history of aviation there has never been a successful water "landing".
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smallpoxgirl
Moderator
Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 6455
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| Tyler_JC wrote: | | Life vests? They are a waste of money, fuel, cargo space, and time. |
+1. All that safety briefing stuff is about calming people's fears. Nothing more. I wonder if there's ever been anyone in the history of commercial aviation that was saved by a lifejacket?
I've flown a couple of times on little 20 passenger Big Sky Airlines planes out in Montana. I always get a laugh out of their safety briefing. It includes how to use the fire extinguisher under the co-pilot's seat. Gonna be a bad day if you're trying to put that one to use.
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VMarcHart
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: May 26, 2008
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Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| 3aidlillahi wrote: | | A non-capitalist nation would not have exhausted half of the world's oil in 100 years nor would it have increased its consumption nearly exponentially in this fashion. |
China is non-capitalist and it's increasing its consumption nearly exponentially. |
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Denny
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jul 10, 2004
Posts: 1707
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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Every kilogram saved of parastic weight in an aircraft has an incremengtal saving of about $2,800 per year in fuel.
Besides that, I'd be happy to avoid the monologues aobut how to use the vest, including the straps, light and the whistle. Its just a joke.
In a similra vein, flight attendants, I think it is high time the airlines went back to the practice they had in the 70's of using just slim women. I think then, it was a form of eye candy for the passengers, but these days, it makes good economic sense. Flight attendant is not a real man's job either. |
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3aidlillahi
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 875
Location: Alif Lam Mim
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| VMarcHart wrote: | | 3aidlillahi wrote: | | A non-capitalist nation would not have exhausted half of the world's oil in 100 years nor would it have increased its consumption nearly exponentially in this fashion. |
China is non-capitalist and it's increasing its consumption nearly exponentially. |
Yes and if they were capitalist, don't you think a nation of 1.3 billion would consume about 4x as much as a nation of 300 million? Or should it at least become even? Think about that in the context of PO and the ramifications of it. Had China been capitalist, then we would have reached peak probably in the '80's, at least by the '90's. This would have led us to a very big problem geologically for oil as the downslope would have been brutal.
So thank you for supporting me. My point is that capitalist economies will consume VAST amounts of resources at the greatest rates. The US, 5% of the world's population and probably the most capitalistic of the major nations, consumes 25% of the world's resources. Imagine what the situation would be if the Chinese were as energy-intensive as we are, or even a quarter as much. Instead, their non-capitalistic society keeps them at a per capita consumption rate that is dwarfed by Canada's per capita consumption.
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mos6507
Fusion
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Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 4565
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| VMarcHart wrote: | | China is non-capitalist and it's increasing its consumption nearly exponentially. |
China these days is de-facto capitalistic. If it were truly communist you wouldn't have some people living in poverty and others buying SUVs.
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mos6507
Fusion
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Joined: Aug 03, 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| 3aidlillahi wrote: | | Imagine what the situation would be if the Chinese were as energy-intensive as we are, or even a quarter as much. |
You won't have to imagine it. It's going to happen (oil willing) right around the corner.
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3aidlillahi
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 875
Location: Alif Lam Mim
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Airliner: Gas Money > Life Vests |
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| Quote: | You won't have to imagine it. It's going to happen (oil willing) right around the corner.
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 Oil willing? Nice. If that wasn't meant to be a joke, then say those two words aloud and remember to whom you're typing. To my hears at least, it sounds a lot like "Allah Willing" (إن شاء الله), a very common phrase.
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