Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
Concerned wrote:
Forget direct confrontation. Russia could just send loads of shoulder fired missiles and RPG's to Afghanistan and Iraq as a geopolitical strategy to defeat the US,should they fail to understand the new world order. Or disorder...
What makes you think they aren't doing that already? _________________ The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1615 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
Specop_007 wrote:
Georgia is an ally
Georgia is decidedly NOT an ally. We've never signed anything with them and when der Bushster tried to fast track them into the alliance, the more sensible heads in Europe nixed it. At the most charitable, Georgia -- or more specifically, its current president -- could be characterized as a US pet.
Specop_007 wrote:
as such America has every right to mind Georgias business.
FAR less-so than the Russians. The Russians live there. You don't. It was, till not that long ago, part of the same country with Russia. There are thousands of ethnic Russians in South Ossetia. Russian peace keepers were killed when the Georgians attacked. Where do you suppose the US has "every right" to mind Georgia's business that trumps all that? I wonder if the Russians have as much right to mind Cuba's, then they may wish to reassert their options if the US sets this precedent.
Specop_007 wrote:
But the fact of the matter is Russia has zero claim to Georgia or South Ossenta as neither are Russian territories.
They're not claiming either. They're helping them achieve independence despite the wishes of the large country of which they unwilling form a part.
Y'know, like we just did with Kosovo...? Don't think the lesson was lost on Moscow. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1615 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
Dreamtwister wrote:
Concerned wrote:
Forget direct confrontation. Russia could just send loads of shoulder fired missiles and RPG's to Afghanistan and Iraq as a geopolitical strategy to defeat the US,should they fail to understand the new world order. Or disorder...
What makes you think they aren't doing that already?
Because only 20 doughboys have been killed in Iraq this month instead of about 100 like last year. If the Russians were feeding them RPGs, the rate would be in the hundreds, and helicopters would be raining from the skies. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
Nickel wrote:
Dreamtwister wrote:
Concerned wrote:
Forget direct confrontation. Russia could just send loads of shoulder fired missiles and RPG's to Afghanistan and Iraq as a geopolitical strategy to defeat the US,should they fail to understand the new world order. Or disorder...
What makes you think they aren't doing that already?
Because only 20 doughboys have been killed in Iraq this month instead of about 100 like last year. If the Russians were feeding them RPGs, the rate would be in the hundreds, and helicopters would be raining from the skies.
That's only because they have been hiding inside their hardened bunkers to artificially supress those casualty numbers in the run up to the election.
But I was mostly refering to the situation in Afghanistan, which I think we can all agree has severely deteriorated recently. _________________ The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
Nickel wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
Georgia is an ally
Georgia is decidedly NOT an ally. We've never signed anything with them and when der Bushster tried to fast track them into the alliance, the more sensible heads in Europe nixed it. At the most charitable, Georgia -- or more specifically, its current president -- could be characterized as a US pet.
Not exactly Mr. Current Events are you? link and link
Yeah, they are in fact an ally. Maybe not an old established one such as England, but none the less "they had our back"....
Quote:
Specop_007 wrote:
as such America has every right to mind Georgias business.
FAR less-so than the Russians. The Russians live there. You don't. It was, till not that long ago, part of the same country with Russia. There are thousands of ethnic Russians in South Ossetia. Russian peace keepers were killed when the Georgians attacked. Where do you suppose the US has "every right" to mind Georgia's business that trumps all that? I wonder if the Russians have as much right to mind Cuba's, then they may wish to reassert their options if the US sets this precedent.
Of course *I* dont. By your claim however, since I am American should i choose to live abroad then the laws of America and NOT the country I choose to live in should apply to me right?
Regardless of the Russians living in South Ossetia, it is NOT a Russia controlled or owned providence. That simple. Georgia has more claim to it then Russia. You can argue until your blue in the face but South Ossetia claimed independence fron...wait for it...GOERGIA! Therefore, ergo and as such Georgia has more claim then Russia.
Quote:
Specop_007 wrote:
But the fact of the matter is Russia has zero claim to Georgia or South Ossenta as neither are Russian territories.
They're not claiming either. They're helping them achieve independence despite the wishes of the large country of which they unwilling form a part. Y'know, like we just did with Kosovo...? Don't think the lesson was lost on Moscow.
Hmm. I was unaware Russia and Serbia were allies and had treaties signed during that conflict. Perhaps you can provide some proof of that?
While Russia has every right to learn lessons from Kosovo, the simple fact ermains that Russia had no treaties with Serbia to assist in the Kosovo conflict, and Russia should not interfere with the Georgia South Esstia crisis as again Russia has no claim.
If anyone should be "minding their own business" its Russia. However, Russia sees a chance at a land grab. Why not take it?
The Russia of old never died, it just took a break. Its back, and its trying to rebuild its former empire much to the worry of those old territories.
Why do you think they are all nuzzling up to America? it aint cause we're going to broadcast American Idol......Its because THEY know who the enemy is and what its like to live under their rule.......Something you may want to research and get your head straight on whats what in this whole issue. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
Have you heard about the black bodies found by the russian army in Georgia ? They were probably mercenaries killed during the fights, but their nationalities remain uncertain.
In my opinion, Russia did defend its own peacekeepers and civilians free to ask a russian passeport. But they were too fast so some people think that they did attack.
In the first hours on 08-08-08, as the White House and Nato were pretending having nothing to do with it, some of our western medias were telling a kind of thruth. Since then, they are blaming Russia but I read IndiaDaily.com, China.org.cn and of course Rian.ru
Oh, and the difference between a pet and an ally is maybe the support of both the population and the government, not only the government, of the allied country. I don't know about the Georgian population, I can't even read their alphabet indeed...
Finally, I really dislike the idea to confront the second nuclear power in the world because someone chewing his tie failed.
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
just great
Quote:
*
Tensions between Russia and the West were ratcheted even higher today after Moscow warned that the American naval build-up in the Black Sea could be seen as a 'declaration of war'.
With Russian newspapers and TV stations today highlighting maps showing the build-up of Western forces in the region, General Nogovitsyn warned the Nato presence could not be allowed to grow 'indefinitely'.
Dmitry Rogozin, Russia's ambassador to Nato, warned against Western interference in Georgia's breakaway regions, which were recognised as independent by Moscow on Tuesday.
'If Nato takes military actions against Abkhazia and South Ossetia, acting solely in support of Tbilisi, this will mean a declaration of war on Russia,' he said.
Congressman Ron Paul says there is 'no difference' between US presidential candidates, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain.
"Their foreign policies are identical," the Texas congressman said in an interview with CNN on Thursday. "There's no difference."
"They want more troops in Afghanistan. They want to send more support to Georgia to protect the oil line there. Neither one says bring home the troops from Iraq from the bases -- you know the bases are going to stay there, the embassy as big as the Vatican, that's going to remain. So their foreign policies are exactly the same," he added.
The former Republican presidential candidate said that the two candidates are both threats to the US national interests.
"We create the threats! Why are we on the borders of Russia provoking the Russians? I mean, the Georgians initiated the military attack against these enclaves where there were mostly Russians... It's a fact that we're over there that we create these crises."
When asked if he endorses any of the candidates, Paul replied, "I've endorsed neither one and we will not endorse either the two top candidates."
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
GeneralGreen wrote:
Ohhh and the women here know how to treat their men! And they are pretty, feminine, and WOMEN!! Give me Russian-Ukraine-Belarus.. and let me die at 50 before you give me a miserable Western European place like Sweden and have me live till 90 lonely and wrenched! That is torment!
General Green, as an occasional visitor to Sweden I can assure you that the country has more than its fair share of pretty, feminine women.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Russia talks of Black Sea confrontaion with USA
Concerned wrote:
Forget direct confrontation.
Russia could just send loads of shoulder fired missiles and RPG's to Afghanistan and Iraq as a geopolitical strategy to defeat the US,should they fail to understand the new world order.
Or disorder...
I've heard that US is worried about pissing off Russia and Russia decides to go into the 'sell the nukes to the highest bidder' biz... (albeit not so blatantly)
Does Russia have interest in the US as does China? China must own a big chunk of the US debt. What does Russia do with its money?
Was Russia a double agents of sorts all these years? Building up its finances, getting the US to lower its guard, possibly sharing some of the US's secrets. And then Russia decides to go back to old ways?
Or nothing as sinister and people were just getting bored?
Last edited by allenwrench on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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