Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
The article is complete and utter bull.
I know Telegraph has been prone to some ideologically based fear-mongering type articles in the past, but this one really takes the cake.
No commodity seller, esp. one that is on fungible markets, wants to screw over their customers, esp. when their own economy is almost completely based on the profits of selling that commodity.
This applies equally well to Russia and oil - and to a lesser degree to natural gas (which isn't really fungible at all).
Even the Russia's finance minister has publicly admitted that the next 10 years will be difficult for Russia - even as it is. That's without breaking any commitments and oil contracts.
I'm sure that come Monday there won't be anything else happening, except that Telegraph reporter eating a hat full of crow.
As for the rest of the Putin/Russians are 'evil' fear-mongering on this thread - grow up silly men. This is normal power politics of super states: lies, disinformation, public propaganda and the like.
Behind the scenes business goes on like usual. Everybody loves money - even those 'evil ex-commies' (sic).
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
halcyon wrote:
No commodity seller, esp. one that is on fungible markets, wants to screw over their customers, esp. when their own economy is almost completely based on the profits of selling that commodity.
Of course that belief is rooted in the standard "If you won't give me what I want, I'll find someone else to supply me what I want!" way of open market systems.
If Russia did cut off oil, who's going to replace what they were supplying to the market? If there isn't anyone capable of meeting that supply, then the standard for that product cannot follow the typical parameters.
Whether the story is bull or not, there is reality in what Russia could do, unless other oil producers have a bunch of extra capacity they can bring online within a few days, and be nice enough to sell it for current rates instead of what spiked price would occur in the event of Russia doing this...
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
TonisD wrote:
threadbear wrote:
As far as lies and disinfo, how would you know? Are you the Oracle, or are you in touch with one?
How about you check my locale in the profile?
We have a military game/exercise for special trained forces across the globe called Erna Journey, it mimics of the operations in WW2 in Estonia. Three years ago, Russia Today or something like that reported that it's an Waffen SS tribute and that real SS killing squad members are participating in the memory of Hitler. So I guess we are tough bunch indeed as it's a 100+ km extremely hard specop game that many teams made of young healthy people are not able to finish, but 90-100 year old SS dudes pass it with flying colours
Russian propaganda is so crazy, it's easy to see through it. The US media is catching up, though. As a former Soviet satellite country, you have to ask yourself, who would you rather be allied with? The US, a former democracy, rather quickly becoming a fascist state, or Russia, the devil you know?
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 885 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
Quinny wrote:
I wonder how close he's getting!
timmac wrote:
Don't under estimate "Putin",, His goal is to make Russia the new number one super power of the world,, its in his blood and he has a good weapon and its called OIL..
He is also at odds with "Bush" over the nukes in Poland and now he is going to place his in Syria and make damn sure Iran gets there nukes also,, If the EU backsdown he will also win in his heart and to the Russian's he will be like the new Zar of Russia..
Has any one hear gave a deep thought of the world economy the day after Isreal bombs Iran,, Russia says it will defend Iran and the USA will defend Isreal,, Russia stops all oil output and Iran as well and shortly stops 40% of worlds oil from passing thur Indian ocean into the worlds energy market,, is there where it says in the Bible that the whole world will turn against Isreal for its action..
I don't know but my old Cold War hat says that the real thing to watch is where the nuclear fulcrum is positioned. Putin could strike if and only if the US was incapacitated in such a way as to not be able to strike back. That means two things will likely have to either happen by blind luck or be engineered. First the US has to lose militarily in the ME in such a way as to set back the military so much that it needs huge financial input to regain its former power. Second there would have to be a whopper of a recession/depression such that the US could not afford to restore its military. Yes, even in the first case the US would still have what it needed to retaliate, but it would need that capability to hold up its shell not only in the ME, but in the rest of the world. Even under condition of loss the US will still need to import oil and what is left of the US military after a loss in the ME would take that as a priority. It goes without saying that North Korea would take advantage of US weakness, so might a lot of small players.
Given the understanding of that environment any policy that pushes the US toward depression and military overcommitment is welcome by Russia, unless it overcommits them as well. There are lots of opportunities for effecting Iraqi politics away from the path the US wants them to take as well that Russia could exercise. And Russia is effectively using its Iranian proxy in the region to cause the US to lean toward overcommitment. Yes, the situation is close for them, very close or they would not have pulled the trigger on Georgia. _________________ "Hope encourages men to take risks; men in a strong position may follow her without ruin, if not without loss. But when they stake all that they have to the last coin (for she is a spendthrift), she reveals her real self in the hour of failure."
"STUPID INSINUATION"
Russian oil traders said they had heard of no cuts to export volumes and it would be almost impossible to mount a serious retaliation against Europe by cutting Druzhba volumes.
Russia's export crude also leaves the country by sea in tankers and Russia cannot control its ultimate destination.
"That (a cutoff of European supplies) is someone's stupid insinuation," a Moscow-based trader at a Western major said. "There is no point in that kind of sanctions. The West gets Russian oil by sea, one way or another."
"And what would Russia do with the oil? Put it back in the ground? And what about the fact that oil sales form the base of its currency inflows? There were buyers for Russian oil even at the height of the Cold War."
LUKOIL cut Druzhba supplies to Germany earlier this year in a dispute with Germany's supplier, Sunimex, but Germany mostly compensated for the loss of oil from the pipeline with seaborne deliveries, including tankers of LUKOIL's own crude.
"Only a sick mind would think of cutting off Europe," a trader at a Russian oil company said. "Technically it is practically impossible, since (Russian) refineries are running at maximum rates and it is difficult to arbitrage right now."
"You can't completely rule it out, though," the trader added. "Politics...always interferes with work."
Russia supplies 34% of Germany's oil - 714 kb/d. The oil weapon might not be happening but there's always the NG weapon.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
I don't care if the Russians say that it won't happen, the truth is that they have 'form' in this area - just ask the Ukranians.
Time for the inadequate politicians that run Europe to knock their heads together and get deadly serious about energy efficiency\cutting oil dependency ASAP.
A coherent European energy strategy and a continent wide super grid using renewables\biomass\nuclear\CCT from Europe\N.Africa would be a good start.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
Sure thing, poor Ukraine. It decided not to pay for the gas and when Russia cut THEIR PORTION of the flow off they started stealing. Why don't you try to stiff your utility company and see how much charity you get.
I bet Bush's puppy Yuschenko is going to refuse to pay again this winter and "prove" once and for all how unreliable Russia is as a supplier. Actually it is quite absurd to talk about this now since NATO attacked Russian civilians and UN mandated peacekeepers on the night of August the 7, 2008. NATO should not expect Russia to care about what NATO feels. Puppy Yuschenko should not expect his little smear attempt to go soft on him. This time around Russia should and must cut off ALL gas flowing through Ukraine the moment his regime decides not to pay.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
Fishman wrote:
Putin "hand us Georgia or you go cold", next winter "hand us Poland or you go cold". Next winter "hand us Germany or you go cold"
...no one like to be cold is hard to have sex when freezing.
"We are not afraid of anything, including the prospect of a Cold War," said President Dmitry Medvedev.
...good policy when butting heads with GWB
Mr Woolsey said the rapid move towards electric cars and other sources of power in the US and Europe means Russia's ability to use the oil weapon will soon be a diminishing asset. "Within a decade it will be very hard for Russia to push us around," he told The Daily Telegraph.
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
Eli wrote:
Quote:
RUSSIA last night provoked fresh fears of a Cold War by boasting it has tested a new long-range nuclear missile. Moscow’s military chiefs revealed their Topol intercontinental stealth rocket had been fired successfully.
The Sun is There I think this is Russia's way of saying screw you.
intercontinental stealth rocket?
I never have heard of them. Did you guys ever hear about stealth rockets. They copied our F-117 and turned it into a rocket?
Was it outsourced to China?
Russians must have been planning some ruckus if they keep on building weapons in peaceful times. Or are peaceful times just used for reloading?
Last edited by allenwrench on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
timmac wrote:
But don't think Putin is just blowing smoke up our ass's,, he is bent on a quest of being the number one super power of the world.
Don't know? They say China will be #1 superpower in the upcoming years with the US 2nd.
Do you see Russia 3rd or will the US go to hell even further to make room for Russia being #2?
As messed up as Russia is, it is hard to fantom the US sinking below Russia as a superpower. I mean who would ever want rubles over dollars?
Another question is how will China read all this? Will China say fudge this, we are not going to let Russia out do us and we are taking over some territory and maybe get some resources in the bargain?
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: RUSSIA PREPARES TO CUT OIL TO WEST WITHIN DAYS. !!!!!
Well it was bound to happen I guess. Given the current supply situation, every oil exporter with an axe to grind now wants to play at being 'Swing Producer'.
This is 'so' going to end badly. Not good...
JP _________________ I see a dark sail on the horizon
set under a black cloud that hides the sun.
Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding.
Bring me my cross of gold as a talisman.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
