Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
*digging up an old thread*
Do you know how many windmills we'd need to supply 20% of our electricity production?
USA total: 4.062 trillion kWh (2005)
5M windmill produces 17 GWh/yr
4,062,000 GWh X 20% / 17 GWh == 47,788 windmills
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3915 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
cube wrote:
*digging up an old thread*
Do you know how many windmills we'd need to supply 20% of our electricity production?
USA total: 4.062 trillion kWh (2005)
5M windmill produces 17 GWh/yr
4,062,000 GWh X 20% / 17 GWh == 47,788 windmills
Nebraska ALONE is 77,354 square miles in extent, that gives you one turbine on each 1.61 square miles.
Doesn't sound all that excessive to me Cube, of course YMMV. _________________ Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention.
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1636 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
From Pickens website:
"NBC had re-examined its position and told us they WOULD allow our ad to run in its original form." _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
mos6507 wrote:
allenwrench wrote:
Don't know all the details but... CNG is dangerous stuff. The above ground tanks I see are spread out over large areas. My fill station is 80 miles round trip away. And one bullet into it and a big boom goes off.
It's been used a lot in buses and a fair number of Hoda Civics. I used to see some CNG Civics driving around Southern California. Do you have any actual statistics for the number of "big booms" that have taken place? Have there been any at all?
"Explosive concerns with compressed natural gas used in vehicles are almost non-existent, due to the escaping nature of the gas, and the need to maintain concentrations between 5% and 15% to trigger explosions." LINK
There have been several huge explosions killing hundreds in Mexico, and the US I believe, over the past couple of decades. These have been pipeline explosions where the fuel is under very high pressure (like in a car storage tank). We just had a huge explosion at a propane storage facility a few weeks back in Toronto. Miraculously only two died, but a few 1000 people have been homeless while the cleanup and damage assessment has been going on.
I do think cng and propane are excellent fuels and are very safe in a vehicle due to the robustness of the tanks relative to a gasoline tank. The danger lies in the storage of vast quantities of these fuels for the car consumer. The nature of cng requires very high filling pressure, and consequently has risk. It is very unlikely tptb would let a soccer mom refuel self serve style.
Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1786 Location: Republic of Texas
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
The "Pickens Plan" is just a PR campaign to institute yet another corporate fascist rip-off of citizens. Clothed in both green and red-white-n-blue, it's selling well.
You will fall for it. Instead of free markets providing energy to the greatest number of people at the lowest possible cost, you will be butt-raped by the taxman at the point of a gun and the funds will get transfered to some corporation.
The "Picken Plan" as just Astroglide for the scam. Lap it up. _________________ Conform . Consume . Obey .
Joined: Oct 13, 2004 Posts: 198 Location: Mahachai City
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
In the massive rush to convert all kinds of vehicles to NGV and LPG there has been a rise in tank explosions and accidents at filling stations where tanks have also exploded damaging the bus or car the tank is in.
Over here they have been converting everything to NGV they even have NGV kits for motorbikes and boats.
This appears to be due to the very low price of NGV at 8.50baht per KG when compared to 33 to 40 baht per litre for diesel and petrol (gasoline). Also Transport price sensitivity is quite high in Thailand.
Its quite common to see a car user now riding a motorbike or a motorbike user riding the bus due to increasing oil prices. So car users who want to cut there costs convert to LPG or NGV.
Trucks have taken to NGV even faster its now very common to see NGV powered semi's on the roads of Thailand.
All filling of NG and LPG, petrol,diesel is done by service station staff.
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
Tanada wrote:
cube wrote:
*digging up an old thread*
Do you know how many windmills we'd need to supply 20% of our electricity production?
USA total: 4.062 trillion kWh (2005)
5M windmill produces 17 GWh/yr
4,062,000 GWh X 20% / 17 GWh == 47,788 windmills
Nebraska ALONE is 77,354 square miles in extent, that gives you one turbine on each 1.61 square miles.
Doesn't sound all that excessive to me Cube, of course YMMV.
Is 50k wind turbines supposed to be a really big number?
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
Dezakin wrote:
Tanada wrote:
cube wrote:
*digging up an old thread*
Do you know how many windmills we'd need to supply 20% of our electricity production?
USA total: 4.062 trillion kWh (2005)
5M windmill produces 17 GWh/yr
4,062,000 GWh X 20% / 17 GWh == 47,788 windmills
Nebraska ALONE is 77,354 square miles in extent, that gives you one turbine on each 1.61 square miles.
Doesn't sound all that excessive to me Cube, of course YMMV.
Is 50k wind turbines supposed to be a really big number?
Yes, when you look at the size of them. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
Cashmere wrote:
Dezakin wrote:
Tanada wrote:
cube wrote:
*digging up an old thread*
Do you know how many windmills we'd need to supply 20% of our electricity production?
USA total: 4.062 trillion kWh (2005)
5M windmill produces 17 GWh/yr
4,062,000 GWh X 20% / 17 GWh == 47,788 windmills
Nebraska ALONE is 77,354 square miles in extent, that gives you one turbine on each 1.61 square miles.
Doesn't sound all that excessive to me Cube, of course YMMV.
Is 50k wind turbines supposed to be a really big number?
Yes, when you look at the size of them.
People assume that they can flip a switch and make 50,000 of these things. What if the plant is set up to make 500 a year? It might take a decade to increase that production substantially.
_________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3915 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
My question is, if you make the motor windings from copper jacketed Aluminum and put Tubercle blades on the thing how much will it cost per unit? _________________ Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention.
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
Cube wrote :
I read somewhere that CNG buses break down twice as often compared to diesel powered buses so they are certainly not cheap.
Thats the same crap that has been said about Flex Fuel vehicles,, The motors can last longer with CNG or Ethanol over diesel or reg petrol because of less carbin buildup and runs cooler,, there is also no fuel pump needed with CNG and thats one less thing to break down...
Joined: Dec 02, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: NBC is refusing to run one of Picken's strongest ads
Tanada wrote:
cube wrote:
*digging up an old thread*
Do you know how many windmills we'd need to supply 20% of our electricity production?
USA total: 4.062 trillion kWh (2005)
5M windmill produces 17 GWh/yr
4,062,000 GWh X 20% / 17 GWh == 47,788 windmills
Nebraska ALONE is 77,354 square miles in extent, that gives you one turbine on each 1.61 square miles.
Doesn't sound all that excessive to me Cube, of course YMMV.
It's not the # of windmills. It's the people, money, TIME, and especially natural resources needed to make this happen. Where are we supposed to get all the metals, plastics, concrete, etc., and especially all the oil and energy to harvest and then refine AND THEN construct 48,000 windmills? If someone has all the numbers PLEASE post them here I'd like to see how society is going to be able to handle annual growth and increase in consumption of oil, coal, and NG consumption AND have the side project of electrifying society with 48,000 windmills and all the infastructure needed to make this happen without society AS WE KNOW IT now remain the same. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG BECAUSE YOU'D SOLVE THE PEAK OIL DELIMA WITH YOUR MAGIC BULLET!
This is other problem PO detractors like JD don't realize when comments like "we can save society by converting to electric" come about. It's all fine and well to state the success of the "end result." (yay we're all driving electric cars, buses, trains, planes, etc.) but no one seems to consider the all the nastiness of the in-between needs such as oil, natural resources, and people needed to make it happen. At this point in history it's too little to late. We should have COMPLETED the 48,000th windmill and had ALL the cars, buses, planes, and trains running on electricity TODAY, not started to CONSIDER doing it today.
What I can guarantee with certainty today is 20 years from now YES we will probably see some of these goals coming to full fruition. HOWEVER society as we know it today (remember I said saving society as we know it not the end of the world) will be gone forever. There will be less people, less resources, and a "smaller world" so to speak. We will reach these goals, and in 200-300 years later, we will see society re-emerge as it was today.
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