I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4681 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject:
I wasn't really comparing myself to the millions of other people who have put WAY more money in than I have. I was just coming to that realization again that SS is a joke and I'm being lied to by the all powerful, "They". _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Considering the fact that I'm only in high school, I don't think I'm going to bother with a 401k or Roth IRA. I'm rather bitter about the fact that I'm paying into Social Security knowing that I'm not going to get a damn penny out of it.
I'm with Ron, my friend. I (and he) have lived with the knowledge that there would be NO Social Security for us by the time we reached "retirement" age. We've known that since we were, well, YOUR age. (I'm 50 now, so that's a lonnnnng time knowing.) Had nothing to do with PO then, at least in my case: I was a Baby Boomer; lots fewer babies born after our generation; they couldn't afford to pay all of us when WE retired. Pretty simple, really. So's the situation now--never mind population; WE'RE NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO RETIRE; it will cost too much to live without a job--probably even WITH one! If money is still worth something, that is. . . .
You've got a sharp mind. So many don't (whether in high school, working, or retired!), and they'll be the early victims of what's coming. No, DON'T invest. You're investing in a social/economic setup that isn't gonna last much longer. What's the point? Even the "get as much money as you can" advice isn't solid--money isn't gonna MEAN anything. Gold? Silver? Maybe, for a short while. Land--well, if you can defend it against all those people looking for a place to set up camp.
Spend the money on training and supplies. And on building the basis of a community, if you're lucky enough to find one. Since you post HERE, I believe you're likely to find a community. Keep paying whatever expenses you have to (rent, food, power, etc) until it crashes. Use the rest wisely--in preparation. TSHTF over the next few YEARS (2010 really is a good basis for when the crumbling of society will collapse the cliff edge we're standing on).
So one other thing I'd advice: do little things for yourself and your circle. If it costs a little money, it won't kill you. Go over to the coffeehouse with a friend and have a cappuchino. Pay the $8 to see the movie you've been wanting to see. Buy a GOOD bicycle. That perfect Christmas gift for the 'rents cost $30? You've got $30 in post-expenses money? BUY it!
Too many people think that preparation means you can't spare any money. That is stupid. Keeping your psyche cool is as much a preparation as learning to grow food or basic mechanics. Today's world is full of stress, too. Tomorrow's will be even worse. See to YOURSELF, and yours. Survive to be a part of a glum, scornful community/world, where there's no laughter, no music, no neighborly get-togethers? What FOR?!
How you deal with what's coming BEFORE it gets here pretty much sets the stage for how you deal with it WHEN it gets here (awfully soon)! What kind of person you're gonna be then depends a lot on what kind a person you're gonna be now. And investing your time and money on preparation and on day-to-day living with that sensible head of yours is a big part of what kind of person you are/will be.
OK, enough lecture. Go do something to cheer you up after we've managed to depress you! But don't forget to come back!
Well, I won't give advice, but I'll tell what I did.
I had about $16,000 in a 401k from my last job and a Roth IRA worth $8,000.
I learned about Peak Oil over a year ago. When I left my previous job back in November, I did not start up a new 401k at my new one because I think that the stock market will crash when our interest based economy finally crumbles.
I then I rolled my 401k into a rollover IRA account. This gives me more control of my money, because the investment choices in my 401k sucked.
My current IRA holdings are in Inflation Indexed Securities. These are basically US Government bonds that pay interest at a rate determined by the inflation rate. Unlike other bonds that have a fixed interest rate, the interest rate on these I bonds will fluctuate with the CPI.
I figure that this is the safest place I can put the money as long as the US government is still around to pay back its bills. When things start to look REALLY bad, that the US might default on its bonds, I will pull it all out, and take the tax hit on the money.
In the meantime, any long term savings that I'm doing involves buying gold & silver bullion.
Joined: Nov 11, 2004 Posts: 978 Location: Heart of Canada's Oil Country
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Say What??
van64 wrote:
Alternatives will be found and assimilated in the due course of time;
LOL!
van64 wrote:
If you truly believe in peak oil, put your money where your mouth is and purchase oil and gas equities.
I already have. _________________ Do not underestimate the difficulties of surviving the transition of peak oil, nor the dangers of global warming. We must embrace nuclear energy and renewables.
I am still contributing to my Roth IRA and Deferred Comp plan, but I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do. I have not increased my contributions - yet. (Roth IRA goes up to $4,000 a year this year. I have until April 15 next year to decide if I want to put in the extra $1,000.)
I have a feeling the stock market will be a very bad place to be when TSHTF. But I still have one foot in it...just in case, I guess.
I like the idea of putting at least some of my Roth IRA into gold and silver. Right now it's in an index fund.
I really wish there were some certified P.O. financial planners out there.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: stop investing in 401k, Roth IRA????
MicroHydro wrote:
solar1 wrote:
Since I am in my late 30s and won't be able to draw from any of these accounts until >2030, should I immediately STOP making investments into these accounts?
Gold, sliver and platinum bullion can be bought with tax deferred IRA money. Sell the all stocks and bonds with the possible exception of pure play renewable energy stocks:
Do not hold on to precious metal mining stocks, as they are adversely affected by high energy costs.
To put your IRA money into bullion contact MONEX.
Yeah if you don't mind losing every cent of your IRA, by all means transfer it to Monex. If, however, you actually want to have something left for retirement you should find someone else to invest with for precious metals. Monex is the crookedest company in the industry, and I can prove it. _________________ Smart investors steer clear of Monex. Learn the truth about Monex at MonexFRAUD.com
Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1008 Location: As close as I can get to the beginning of the pipe.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Say What??
van64 wrote:
You guys crack me up--totally. Let's examine this like the intelligent people behind us: those who will take your place in the 401-k and Roth IRA contributions line and take advantage of the depressed equity prices that your for-gone purchases are creating.
Since 1802, US stocks have returned an average of 8.5% annually. Year in and year out. Put that in your compound pipe and smoke it. This was 60 years before crude oil was even DISCOVERED and commercialized in PA, folks. Sure, there have been good years and bad years: wars and famine and global pestilence. Gold and silver do not come close to returning what stocks return; neither have bonds or treasuries or any other interest-bearing instrument. Land? Well, it's the closest at about 8% annually. . . .
If you truly believe in peak oil, put your money where your mouth is and purchase oil and gas equities.
Looking in the rear-view mirror at the last 150 years during a period of massive expansion and growth due to fossil fuels is not the way to plan for a future of a contracting economy, Van.
I've dealt with it by reducing my oil and PM equity investments outside the IRA, and leaving the trapped $$ inside the IRA in oil and PM equities. I feel that PM equities in the short run will benefit from the eventual run up in gold. (Yes, eventually PM equities will have to contract as we wean ourselves off of industrial-assisted mining techniques. If you've got matching funds, keep paying into your 401k in order to capture that "free money." If I was younger and short of cash, I'd take it out, pay the taxes, and buy physical bullion.
And SavetheHumans advice is great. Take a deep breath, buy a good bike, enjoy the high-energy society while it's here. _________________ "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 270 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: stop investing in 401k, Roth IRA????
as to general motors.....HMMM some of the same companies that made horse drawn wagons make up GM now.
Do you feel all possibility of invention adaptation and survival of this corporation are past?
Peak oil may not mean the end of stocks, nor the end of civilization. It may mean the beginning of a growth in a different direction just as oil caused one so many years ago.
Try not to whine to much, look for opportunity instead of spending your days hiding in the cellar. You might just be the guy who comes up with the "self propelled wagon" idea for the future.
THE GLASS MIGHT IN FACT BE 1/2 FULL! _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 270 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject:
Tyler_JC wrote:
I wasn't really comparing myself to the millions of other people who have put WAY more money in than I have. I was just coming to that realization again that SS is a joke and I'm being lied to by the all powerful, "They".
Welcome to the realization that socialism does not work without constant growth.. SS was a Pansey scheme from the start!
Now that you realize the ruling elite use their government to get as much from you as possible... live with it!
( Really live, be your own person. Enjoy what you have and build your own future in spite of what their thievery takes along the way!) _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
( Really live, be your own person. Enjoy what you have and build your own future in spite of what their thievery takes along the way!)
I totally agree with this philosophy. You can't let them bring you down. You have to keep moving forward and following your dreams despite them.
Oh yeah and uh, stay out of tall buildings! No need to walk in front of the target. _________________ Smart investors steer clear of Monex. Learn the truth about Monex at MonexFRAUD.com
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: stop investing in 401k, Roth IRA????
I am currently 25. I contribute the max to my 401k and the max in my Roth IRA. I do this because I believe Social Security will not be there when I retire in 40 years.
Additionally I save outside of retirement in a general investing account and have preps that I buy on a regular basis.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Re: stop investing in 401k, Roth IRA????
I think one would be a bloody fool not to invest something.
Peak Oil is the redefinition of the world as we know it, its hardly the end of it. Before we even knew what oil was we had people, business, money, traders....
We survived before oil and we'll for damn sure survive after. The key is to be one of those thats makes it through the changes. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
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