Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6627 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Fears solves nothing, certainly.
See edited version of my above post, though. There is plenty of REASON for fear, but again, I agree that the emotion is counterproductive. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Specop_007 wrote:
But I can think of no point in the history of man where, literalyl, all trade has just stopped.
Can you think of a point in history were there was no comfortable, property-owning middle class? Because that's all that matters, where you and I and 95% of this board are concerned.
We're a few bad moves away from serfdom. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
emersonbiggins wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
But I can think of no point in the history of man where, literalyl, all trade has just stopped.
Can you think of a point in history were there was no comfortable, property-owning middle class? Because that's all that matters, where you and I and 95% of this board are concerned.
We're a few bad moves away from serfdom.
Yep.
When we were throwing poo at each other and dragging our knuckles on the ground.
We may be a few bad moves from serfdom, but we're also a few billion people away too. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Specop_007 wrote:
emersonbiggins wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
But I can think of no point in the history of man where, literalyl, all trade has just stopped.
Can you think of a point in history were there was no comfortable, property-owning middle class? Because that's all that matters, where you and I and 95% of this board are concerned.
We're a few bad moves away from serfdom.
Yep.
When we were throwing poo at each other and dragging our knuckles on the ground.
We may be a few bad moves from serfdom, but we're also a few billion people away too.
True. I just have a hard time accepting 20c American normality as the baseline for human existence. Any way you measure, it is an impressive aberration of a largely debased existence, and I see no reason there won't be a return to the norm, but it might take decades to see it for what it is.
It won't happen overnight, though. Diamond's Collapse proves that well enough. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Joined: Sep 08, 2005 Posts: 792 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Why do you folks think that we'll return to the days of serfdom and "debased" existence, a la the Middle Ages, etc? Is there anything to stop us from setting up some sort of equitable society, one in which we share and share alike? If we don't, just kiss any sort of "civilized" society good-bye, and we might as well just go ahead and extinct ourselves, as that would be a much better fate than to go back to such a horrid existence.
I would like to make a point, however. The big difference between US middle class society and medieval society is that us middle class folk own guns, as well as a huge sense of entitlement. Do any of you really think that a small class of overlords can enslave the rest of us, i.e., the former middle class? I think not. It's just easier for folk like me to pop caps in their asses and take what I need for myself. Believe me, there's going to be a whole lot of "us" and not very many of "them". Hardly what I call a fair fight.
That's how the ruling classes of the future are going to get Darwinized out of existence - through the mighty equalizing power of the lowly handgun. _________________ Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide...
...and the meek shall inherit the Earth!
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
emersonbiggins wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
emersonbiggins wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
But I can think of no point in the history of man where, literalyl, all trade has just stopped.
Can you think of a point in history were there was no comfortable, property-owning middle class? Because that's all that matters, where you and I and 95% of this board are concerned.
We're a few bad moves away from serfdom.
Yep.
When we were throwing poo at each other and dragging our knuckles on the ground.
We may be a few bad moves from serfdom, but we're also a few billion people away too.
True. I just have a hard time accepting 20c American normality as the baseline for human existence. Any way you measure, it is an impressive aberration of a largely debased existence, and I see no reason there won't be a return to the norm, but it might take decades to see it for what it is.
It won't happen overnight, though. Diamond's Collapse proves that well enough.
If 2oth century America is the baseline for our existance please shoot me now.
Outside of the very enjoyable convenience of A/C, cable and internet and the very much apppreciated availability of penecillian, I have little use for it all.
If I could take a portable genny, a small frig, a fan and a couple bottles of antibiotics back 300 years I'd be happy as a pig with lipstick.
Hell, I could even do without the genny frig and fan..... _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
كا&#
Last edited by Specop_007 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Byron100 wrote:
Believe me, there's going to be a whole lot of "us" and not very many of "them". Hardly what I call a fair fight.
That's how the ruling classes of the future are going to get Darwinized out of existence - through the mighty equalizing power of the lowly handgun.
90% of the US middle class is soft. Sorry if I can't see soccer moms rising up against the man. Rather, in a bind, they will be in front of a camera blaming the government (or others) as to why they can't find the brand of ice cream they like. They are not going to wake up one day, having osmotically learned the tenets of manual labor from their long-dead ancestors, and start spinning a loom or churning butter. They will roll over, easy, for a promise to be "taken care of."
Rugged individualists with a keen sense of the proper bounds of government are the exception, not the rule. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
emersonbiggins wrote:
Byron100 wrote:
Believe me, there's going to be a whole lot of "us" and not very many of "them". Hardly what I call a fair fight.
That's how the ruling classes of the future are going to get Darwinized out of existence - through the mighty equalizing power of the lowly handgun.
90% of the US middle class is soft. Sorry if I can't see soccer moms rising up against the man. Rather, in a bind, they will be in front of a camera blaming the government (or others) as to why they can't find the brand of ice cream they like. They are not going to wake up one day, having osmotically learned the tenets of manual labor from their long-dead ancestors, and start spinning a loom or churning butter. They will roll over, easy, for a promise to be "taken care of."
Rugged individualists with a keen sense of the proper bounds of government are the exception, not the rule.
Yep. Our Founding Father sbuilt revolution into the government, no firearms necessary.
Its called a vote.
We cant even get "We the people" to vote out the current crop of cronies and theives. They just vote in their parties thieves and point fingers at the other guys. Armed revolution? Never happen. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Joined: Mar 18, 2008 Posts: 468 Location: Upstate New York
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Specop_007 wrote:
Yep. Our Founding Father sbuilt revolution into the government, no firearms necessary.
Its called a vote.
We cant even get "We the people" to vote out the current crop of cronies and thieves. They just vote in their parties thieves and point fingers at the other guys. Armed revolution? Never happen.
The only problem is when you replace one set of thieves with another new set.
The 2nd Amendment was put in place to keep individuals/militias armed to overthrow a government that it is unhappy with. There are checks that the founding fathers put in place. 1. Vote. 2. Protest/Freedom of Speech. 3. Armed revolution.
That being said I think we are a long way off from an armed response happening but since 99% of Americans can't seem to get off their collective couches to protest, we won't see it until things get really bad.
Arsenal
Last edited by Arsenal on Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Too much bread and circus.
I'm almost convinced that people will forget they need bread as long as they have circus. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Arsenal wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
Yep. Our Founding Father sbuilt revolution into the government, no firearms necessary.
Its called a vote.
We cant even get "We the people" to vote out the current crop of cronies and thieves. They just vote in their parties thieves and point fingers at the other guys. Armed revolution? Never happen.
The only problem is when you replace one set of thieves with another new set.
The 2nd Amendment was put in place to keep individuals/militias armed to overthrow a government that it is unhappy with. There are checks that the founding fathers put in place. 1. Vote. 2. Protest/Freedom of Speech. 3. Armed revolution.
That being said I think we are a long way off from an armed response happening but since 99% of Americans can't seem to get off their collective couches to protest, we won't see it until things get really bad.
Arsenal
I agree. My point is people today sure like to bitch and moan about how bad things are or how unhappy they are, but we cant even get them to vote for change! No chance they'll actually fight for it. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6786 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
Quote:
Post subject: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
The Dow is up 61 points at the moment, and the NY Fed is apparently going to bail out AIG.
Time for lunch soon, then maybe a nice nap.
Anything good on TV tonight? _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
After the initial drop this morning, the DJI has been relatively stable throughout the day. Who expects another large drop in the last hour of trading today? _________________ Whoso would be a man must be a non-conformist.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 447 Location: Windy City No Longer
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stocks Death Spiral in last hour of trading
anthem wrote:
After the initial drop this morning, the DJI has been relatively stable throughout the day. Who expects another large drop in the last hour of trading today?
I read this just after I got done checking the ticker to see if contra-hour had ended and we're back into dropping again. _________________ TANSTAAFL
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