Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
See, now, you weren't supposed to say that out loud!
GS was FINE before you said anything - plenty of capital! They have a plan!
But no. You had to let it out. Now everyone is going to dump the stock and poor Ben is going to have to buy loan your money to them so they don't tank, and slap a big-fat warrant agreement on them. But then the stock will tank anyway, and they'll bankrupt anyway, and all that money Ben loaned them will be gone. Poor Ben. He'll have to take all their assets at fire-sale prices and pawn them off to his friends just so he can pay his bills, what with all that bad debt he HAD to take on to keep the economy running. What's that? That's so kind of you to pay for it my fellow 'merican! Sign here please never mind the paperwork, we'll take care of it.
Who would have thought the Fed was really the most vicious hostile take-over firm in history?
Gee willikers! Good thing we have the Ben & Bush to keep all those A-rab terrorists from destroying the 'merican 'conomy.
seldom_seen wrote:
Quote:
Sept. 19 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission may ban short-selling in the shares of Wall Street brokerages
This is about one thing, and one thing only. Protecting Goldman Sachs.
The emergency order temporarily banning short selling of financial stocks will restore equilibrium to markets. This action, which would not be necessary in a well-functioning market, is temporary in nature and part of the comprehensive set of steps being taken by the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, and the Congress.”
Today’s decisive SEC action calls a time-out to aggressive short selling in financial institution stocks, because of the essential link between their stock price and confidence in the institution. The Commission will continue to consider measures to address short selling concerns in other publicly traded companies.
Under normal market conditions, short selling contributes to price efficiency and adds liquidity to the markets. At present, it appears that unbridled short selling is contributing to the recent, sudden price declines in the securities of financial institutions unrelated to true price valuation. Financial institutions are particularly vulnerable to this crisis of confidence and panic selling because they depend on the confidence of their trading counterparties in the conduct of their core business.
Given the importance of confidence in financial markets, today’s action halts short selling in 799 financial institutions. The SEC’s emergency order, pursuant to its authority in Section 12(k)(2) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, will be immediately effective and will terminate at 11:59 p.m. ET on October 2, 2008. The Commission may extend the order beyond 10 days if it deems an extension necessary in the public interest and for the protection of investors, but will not extend the order for more than 30 calendar days in total duration.
The Commission notes today’s similar announcement by the U.K. FSA. The SEC and FSA are consulting on an ongoing basis with regard to short selling matters and will continue to cooperate in carrying out regulatory actions.
The Commission also has taken the following steps to address the recent market conditions:
Temporarily requiring that institutional money managers report their new short sales of certain publicly traded securities. These money managers are already required to report their long positions in these securities.
Temporarily easing restrictions on the ability of securities issuers to re-purchase their securities. This change will give issuers more flexibility to buy back their securities, and help restore liquidity during this period of unusual and extraordinary market volatility.
_________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
What's the big deal about this? Why should you have the right to sell something you don't even own?
If a company is priced too high, then people will sell it who actually own the stock, bringing the price down. So fair prices will still be achieved without short selling.
You people just jump on any decision made by TPTB and complain about it, because of course anyone in a position of power is inherently corrupt according to you. Can't you just for once give them credit?
Oh that's right, forgot, this entire site is not about rational assessment, it's about doomer porn. Sorry - they're all evil I tells ya, evil!
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 2616 Location: South of Atlanta
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
GreyGhost wrote:
What's the big deal about this? Why should you have the right to sell something you don't even own?
If you think this is no big deal, than you dont understand how the markets work. This is huge, it has the potential to completely crash the markets within days or weeks. maybe even HOURS!
Its some sort of desperation move by the Pigmen and that is why it is scary.
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
smallpoxgirl wrote:
I'm trying very hard not to do anything rash, but I'm freaking out right now.
Likewise. But I have to admit: I am seriously thinking about withdrawing all of my money out of the bank and cashing out my money market account today. I am -> <- this close to doing it, because I keep seeing signs that this is about to spread from the investment bank community to the commercial bank community.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2888 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
Captain_Meh wrote:
smallpoxgirl wrote:
I'm trying very hard not to do anything rash, but I'm freaking out right now.
Likewise. But I have to admit: I am seriously thinking about withdrawing all of my money out of the bank and cashing out my money market account today. I am -> <- this close to doing it, because I keep seeing signs that this is about to spread from the investment bank community to the commercial bank community.
Anyone have any thoughts either way?
Look, I'm not a doomer. Far from it, as many here can tell you.
But. They have now started allowing the investment banks to tap FDIC insured deposits.
If I had money in an American bank I'd get them ASAP. Put them in a stable European bank or something. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2258 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
If its no longer legal to bring these democratic parasites down via shorting, then they should be burned down, legally, via the Second Amendment, with a bic lighter.
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
GreyGhost wrote:
What's the big deal about this? Why should you have the right to sell something you don't even own?
Why do people could borrow?
The big deal about it is that short sellers are the buyers in the downtrend - they sell short when everybody else are optimistic and only buy-buy-buy, they cover their shorts by buying when everybody loose their faith in the market and only sell-sell-sell. Remove short sellers and once initial optimism is over and a pool of buyers is exhausted the bottom would fall off from the market...
When you sell short you are marked to marked daily... i.e. if you went wrong with your bet you have to come up daily with the amount you are wrong. Those who are now short financial and didn't cover would be loosing equity daily and would be required to come up with new capital daily. This would greatly disrupt the market. 10% daily volatility wouldn't be surprising at this point...
Gentlemen, we are set for very violent correction and they even named the date...
Last edited by MOCKBA on Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4936 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
Captain-
I'm right there with you... Too bad everything is so MANIPULATED that you can't put your money anywhere safe... Might as well convert to Norwegian Kroners... _________________ Clothing should be optional.
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
Roy wrote:
If I had money invested in this market I'd be running away right now. Wait, I cashed out in 06. Nevermind.
Beat ya to it. I cashed out 25 years ago. Rigged game all the way. I am comfortable with making predictions when I know the parameters, but this game was obviously rigged from the get go, after lookig at over 1000 balance sheets 25 years ago it was obvious. The market had so much inherent risk in it even THEN I could not justify it to myself, and I sure had trouble making the numbers work out for the folks I worked for.
Lots of folks played the game for the last 20 years, they basically destroyed the world by doing so. If you bought into this charade, count yourself as one who set the world on fire. I am glad I was not part of that fiasco.
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
GreyGhost wrote:
What's the big deal about this? Why should you have the right to sell something you don't even own?
The reason it's important is that the markets are supposed to be about price discovery for companies as much as anything. It's a see-saw between bears and bulls. Some think it's worth more, and they buy the stock. Some think it's worth less and they short the stock. Between them, they establish a fair value for the stock.
If a company has value, then they aren't particularly susceptible to short selling and the short sellers end up pumping free money into the market. Short selling only works, when a stock is over-bought and the stock price exceeds company's value.
This is a typical Bush administration kind of move. "If you won't tell us what we want to hear, then you can't participate in the process." It's the roach motel approach to building stock prices. If nobody can push prices down, then they have to go up. Right? Well certainly they will for a while, but the stock price will become(even more) disconnected from the actual value of the company. The more disconnected the prices become from the actual value of the companies, the greater the potential for nasty corrections and panics becomes. These companies are all going to eventually become bankrupt. They are heavily invested in an asset class that is dropping like a stone. There is no evidence of a bottom in the housing market. That reality is unpleasant, but it's real. This whole week has been one huge denial process. Everyone is scrambling to figure out how we can deny reality for another day. Every move we make to deny reality makes the eventual outcome that much worse. Every time we try to bail one of these companies out, we make the problem worse. Playing make-believe with the stock markets makes the problem worse. It doesn't make it go away, it just gives it longer to fester. You can try to cover over your termite infested wall with wallpaper and make it look pretty, but eventually your house will fall down. Ripping open the wall, cleaning out the rotted material, and replacing the structure makes a big mess, but it's the only way you end up with a sound place to live.
This is a historic day. September 19, 2008 will end up in a history book somewhere as the day the SEC banned short selling to try to stem the stock crash of 2008. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Re: SEC bans short-selling in US
Captain_Meh wrote:
Likewise. But I have to admit: I am seriously thinking about withdrawing all of my money out of the bank and cashing out my money market account today.
I'm still pondering, but I'm seriously thinking about closing my investment account and moving to a mix of precious metals and cash. By that I mean physical metals you can hold in your hand and actual cash you can hold in your hand. Investing in this market if you're forbidden to short, seems to me to be rank suicide. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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