Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
* January 12, 1922 Adolf Hitler sentenced to three months.
* June 24, 1922 Hitler Incarcerated. Also:
o Walter Rathenau assassinated.
o Reichsmark (RM) was 272 to 1 American dollar
* July 27, 1922 Hitler released.
* July 1922 670 reichsmarks = 1 US dollar
* August 1922 2,000 reichsmarks = 1 US dollar
* October 27, 1922 Benito Mussolini establishes his Fascist dictatorship in Italy.
* October 1922 45,000 reichsmarks = 1 US dollar
* November 22, 1922 Dr. Wirth leaves office
* November 1922 10,000 reichsmarks = 1 US dollar
* December 27, 1922 France occupies the Ruhr.
* December 30, 1922 500,000 reichsmarks = 1 US dollar
Quote:
# November 15, 1923 Rentenmark issued; pegged to the Gold Standard; Rentenmark 4.2 = 1 US dollar; at this time:
* Old Reichsmark 4,200,000,000 = 1 US dollar
Got Wheelbarrow? _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
C'mon man, who're you gonna believe?
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
What an ironic "mortgage bailout" program this is.
The little people get foreclosed, large swaths of cities like Cleveland have devestated neighborhoods, and now, as the pain escalates to hit Wall Street, the government says, "hey, we have to pitch in here...Our Wall Street buddies are feeling pain!"
I guess there is an aristocracy in America these days, and they can squeeze out their entitlements, whether these come to them through the normal economy, or from the taxpayers.
Unfortunately, with the houses formerly facing foreclosure under the previous bailout now facing foreclosure again at twice the price, we're just doubling the prices again and pricing in the next bailout.
9/21 bailout bailout: $700 billion
Money market fund bailout: $50 billion
Lehman bailout: $87 billion
AIG bailout: $85 billion
new FHA loans: $300 billion
Fannie, Freddie bailout: $400 billion
first-time home buyer credit: $8,000 per person * 3 million annual
buying and rehabilitating foreclosed properties: $3.9 billion
Bear Stearns acquisition: $30 billion
short term loan auctions: $300 billion
Calif* zero down payment loans: $200 million
$1,980,100,000,000 _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement, cannibalism, & zombie invasions.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5928 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
As it is posted on another thread, the $700 billion mortgage bailout does not appear to bail out the FDIC - which may see as many as 200 banks fail over the next two years.
Also it does not bail out the real estate market, like the RTC did in 1989-1991. Calling this new bill the RTC II is incorrect, and leads one to believe there will be - in addtion - a real estate bailout program like the RTC, although they haven't gotten around to that yet.
The PTB said they want a comprehensive plan, yet left out two important areas. So we will left again being "forced" to bail out other porgrams not covered here. _________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5928 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
TreebeardsUncle wrote:
So, what effect will moving the deadbeat mortage debt over to the federal budget deficit have? Will this put a floor under housing prices?
g
For the most part, housing demand seems to be a function of job availability and wage levels, and the availability and cost of borrowing.
While there may be some progress at first towards making credit a little easier and reducing its cost, the policies adopted will later likely raise the cost of borrowing in the US. _________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
Today, short term auctions were raised to $900 billion & ceased requiring collateral. Bernanke's first $25 billion short term auction last year is prehistoric. $900 billion is the new $25 billion.
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
Today was the business lending bailout. $1.3 trillion of commercial paper will now be provided by your government, no collateral required. Yesterday's $900 billion bailout is prehistoric. $1.3 trillion is the new $900 billion. Next bailout.
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Bailout Counter
Thanks for keeping track of this, hw.
Dante, you mentioned that the mortgage bailout also includes derivatives. This seems like the huge black whole that could really swallow not just the US but the whole world economy. Do you have anything new on this front?
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
TheDude wrote:
There goes 19.6% of GDP.
It's funny money we're talking about here, who knows what it'll actually do to GDP. During the great depression the market lost ~90% of it's value but GDP only dropped ~25%. It's not like people don't catch on if governments inflate the money supply and price accordingly... _________________
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Bailout Counter
After blowing its last $85 billion on luxury hotel rooms for its executives, AIG begged for more money & taxpayers obliged. Another $37 billion check for AIG. Clear! Chachung!
Joined: Jun 29, 2008 Posts: 88 Location: Great Britan
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
yesplease wrote:
TheDude wrote:
There goes 19.6% of GDP.
It's funny money we're talking about here, who knows what it'll actually do to GDP. During the great depression the market lost ~90% of it's value but GDP only dropped ~25%. It's not like people don't catch on if governments inflate the money supply and price accordingly...
It would be worse today as at least they had a lot of industry and manufacturing back then. Today the "made up" economy consists of a much bigger chunk of GDP than it did back then. The service economy will be the first thing to go, after the banking/credit system. When that goes, there's not much else of any real substance.
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: mortgage bailout counter
Gebari wrote:
yesplease wrote:
TheDude wrote:
There goes 19.6% of GDP.
It's funny money we're talking about here, who knows what it'll actually do to GDP. During the great depression the market lost ~90% of it's value but GDP only dropped ~25%. It's not like people don't catch on if governments inflate the money supply and price accordingly...
It would be worse today as at least they had a lot of industry and manufacturing back then. Today the "made up" economy consists of a much bigger chunk of GDP than it did back then. The service economy will be the first thing to go, after the banking/credit system. When that goes, there's not much else of any real substance.
I've heard that quite a bit but as far as I can tell it's for the most part unfounded. Industry as a percentage of GDP is only abou 10% less today compared to 1929. W/ recent fuel price increases, we may eliminate that gap over the next decade. _________________
Joined: Jun 29, 2008 Posts: 88 Location: Great Britan
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Bailout Counter
I find it hard to believe that manfacturing and industry is only 10% less of GDP than it was 80 years ago in the US. A lot more stuff was home made back then... there's been a signifcant outsourcing of industry and manufacturing to place such as China in recent years and a transition to a service economy. What service jobs were there back then... no call centers, people flipping burgers.
Something must be dodgy with those figures surely, don't have time to research it at the moment though. Perhaps those figures include products produced for American manfuacturers abroad.
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