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Graeme
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Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Dioxide |
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Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Dioxide
| Quote: | | Researchers in Wyoming report development of a low-cost carbon filter that can remove 90 percent of carbon dioxide gas from the smokestacks of electric power plants that burn coal and other fossil fuels. |
aggregateresearch
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lorenzo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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That's great! It brings carbon-negative bioenergy a step closer.
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vtsnowedin
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jul 11, 2008
Posts: 633
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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 All headlines, No details ,No facts. Cheap sudojournalism. |
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sjn
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: 627
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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| Graeme wrote: | Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Dioxide
| Quote: | | Researchers in Wyoming report development of a low-cost carbon filter that can remove 90 percent of carbon dioxide gas from the smokestacks of electric power plants that burn coal and other fossil fuels. |
aggregateresearch |
The article is it states the use of carbonaceous sorbent which has to be manufacured through an energy intensive process. Really there isn't a free lunch here. The only way of reducing the emission of CO2 is to burn less fossil fuels. |
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RSFB
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Joined: Aug 03, 2008
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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| sjn wrote: | | The article is it states the use of carbonaceous sorbent which has to be manufacured through an energy intensive process. Really there isn't a free lunch here. The only way of reducing the emission of CO2 is to burn less fossil fuels. |
How did you jump to that conclusion? Energy intensive doesn't mean it emits more carbon than it will avoid later. |
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Tanada
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Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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Something to keep in mind, if it really is as cheap and efficient as they claim it might slow the rate of climate change but you would have to install enough capacity to compensate for every fossil fuel burning device on the planet to hold CO2 levels where they are right now, and additional capacity on top of that to actually reduce world wide CO2.
I can see this being promoted as a way of having 'clean coal' but it won't do anything for the hundreds of millions of CO2 emiting machines on the planet.
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Carlhole
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thylacine
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Joined: Jan 19, 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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| vtsnowedin wrote: | | All headlines, No details ,No facts. Cheap sudojournalism. |
This is the paper the articles are referencing:
http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.cgi/iecred/2008/47/i10/pdf/ie0707974.pdf
It actually looks as if it might be a lower cost method of stripping CO2 out of flue gas. Although in their conclusion it looks like the authors have more of an eye on its use in enhanced oil recovery:
| Quote: | An abundant supply of low-cost CO2 is
good news for enhanced oil recovery (EOR) and enhanced coalbed
methane recovery (ECBMR) operators, because it can lead
to more oil and gas produced in an environmentally sensitive
manner. |
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dukey
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Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2069
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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CO2 doesn't cause global warming.
The ice core records showed the temperature went up first, then CO2 followed AFTER. How the f-ck this means that CO2 drives the temperature god only knows. How thick to you have to be ?
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Starvid
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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It only shows CO2 doesn't initiate warming, not that it doesn't strengthen warming initiated by natural causes.
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oilluber
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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| Graeme wrote: | Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Dioxide
| Quote: | | Researchers in Wyoming report development of a low-cost carbon filter that can remove 90 percent of carbon dioxide gas from the smokestacks of electric power plants that burn coal and other fossil fuels. |
aggregateresearch |
a low cost carbon filter ??
Geeze, why can't i put a filter on my tailpipe and have oxygen
comming out of it to reduce emissions ??
It must be some filter to be able to filter out a CO2 molecule, amazing
technology. |
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yesplease
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Joined: Oct 03, 2006
Posts: 2570
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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| sjn wrote: | | The article is it states the use of carbonaceous sorbent which has to be manufacured through an energy intensive process. |
Incredibly energy intensive... 
| sjn wrote: | | Really there isn't a free lunch here. The only way of reducing the emission of CO2 is to burn less fossil fuels. |
It isn't about "free lunch". I suppose this could reduce the efficiency of a combined cycle power plant where the excess heat was used for, well, heating, but in this case the "free lunch" is just using steam or hot-CO2, aka "waste" heat, to regenerate the filter.
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steam_cannon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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Sounds a little like carbon media based pressure swing oxygen
concentrator or molecular sieve type gadget. They can be used to
concentrate all sorts of gasses and many can operate at low pressure.
But that still leaves the question of what you do with the concentrated gas?
Put it in tanks, pump it underground?
But whatever happens with this technology, it's interesting research
and good to know about. Thanks Graeme! |
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lorenzo
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Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 2231
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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Dudes, the article is open access so you can read it for yourself.
The sorbent is activated carbon. Which anyone can make in his backyard from a batch of simple charcoal.
Other carbon sorbents considered were ordinary charcoal as such and coal powder. Both worked well, but AC worked beter.
So let's get real and stop making ourselves look like fools by somehow thinking that this new super-simple filter would somehow be too energy intensive to be worth the effort.
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steam_cannon
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Joined: Dec 28, 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Low-cost Carbon Filter Removes 90 Percent Of Carbon Diox |
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| lorenzo wrote: | Dudes, the article is open access so you can read it for yourself.
The sorbent is activated carbon. Which anyone can make in his backyard from a batch of simple charcoal.
Other carbon sorbents considered were ordinary charcoal as such and coal powder. Both worked well, but AC worked beter.
So let's get real and stop making ourselves look like fools by somehow thinking that this new super-simple filter would somehow be too energy intensive to be worth the effort. |
I think you're reading a bit much into that article...
| oilluber wrote: | a low cost carbon filter ??
Geeze, why can't i put a filter on my tailpipe and have oxygen
comming out of it to reduce emissions ??
It must be some filter to be able to filter out a CO2 molecule, amazing
technology. |
And it's not going to strap onto a tailpipe and make the CO2 disappear.
Some background info:
A simple pressure 90% efficient swing oxygen concentrator can be
constructed with two chambers and using a gas sorbent like
zeolite crystals. At low pressure nitrogen sticks to zeolite and a
number of materials so gasses can be separated efficiently, then
the nitrogen unsticks and is released. Activated carbon is a
sorbent that carbon dioxide sticks to at low pressure, the carbon dioxide
briefly sticks and then unsticks and is released. So most likely this
device works similarly to previous gas separation devices, the
abstract even compares itself to another gas separation technology.
My conclusion:
Where I'm going with this, you have to understand that this is a
gas separation technology and once the gas is separated then
something must be done with it. The gas has to be bottled, stuck
underground, something. It doesn't just go away. This technology
increases efficiency some percent in just one step in a carbon
sequestration process and that's all. It still costs a lot of energy
to pump CO2 to the bottom of oceans or where ever people are
hoping to stick the stuff. This technology doesn't address that problem.
So IMO this is interesting research and a solid step in the direction of
making carbon sequestration more doable. But lets not fool ourselves
here, this is not an article about CO2 disappearing into a magic muffler
stuck on your tailpipe. It's an article about one step in a bigger process. |
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