Should I Move There?

bromius · Heavy Crude Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 143

Heineken,
Wow, that property is up in my neck of the woods. Watertown is a little over an hour drive for me. I don't know if you've ever been up this way previously, but the Adirondacks are beautiful place, a biological jewel. I have a lot of respect for the people who had the foresight and dedication to preserve it. I don't know if you'll fly in or drive, but I would recommend driving through the Park for part of your journey if you travel by car. I've spent a lot of time there over the years and could point you to some amazing spots. I will warn you though, if you do this you probably will want to move up here.

Haha, you know I take an above average interest in the trees so I'll mention some positives and negatives there.

Sixty acres is a good size in NY. Fifty acres is the magic number because that is the threshold size for getting enrolled into 480a. Its basically a tax law that is designed to help maintain large forested tracts of land by offering a partial exemption to property taxes.

The species you mentioned are high value hardwoods. I was surprised you didn't mention sugar maple as one of the species there, although if the land was harvested in the past a lot of it might have been taken out. If you do find a nice patch of them, you could make maple syrup! There are few aromas more pleasing than walking into a wood fired sugar shack going all out in the spring.

As for the ash, I'm afraid to say that in 10 years it will probably not be a component of that forest. The emeral ash borer has been inflicting near 100% mortality as it spreads. If you do buy the property, I would harvest it ASAP before the market gets flooded with salvaged ash. If they're not of mercantable size yet, you'll have plenty of high quality firewood.

One issue I haven't seen mentioned yet is acid deposition. In general, sandy soils are the most vulnerable to the more insidious effects of it, since they typically have little buffering capacity. The H+ ions in the preciptation tend to displace nutrient cations like K+, Ca+2, Mg+2 from negatively charged soil particles. I worry about this because if a lot of new coal plants are built, this problem could intensify. However, if the pond nearby is indeed well stocked with trout, which are generally sensitive to environmental degradation, I'm guessing that particular area must have something in the soil that is buffering the pH of the soil/runoff.

The remoteness from major population centers is a plus. The proximity to Ft. Drum is a minus. I actually took a field trip there last spring to see their forestry operations. After the 10th Mtn. Division got stationed there, the base become a pretty major hub for military operations. They have one of the largest runways on the continent there. Most of the activity and development is focused at the SW corner of the base. Certain areas of the 100,000 or so acres they have are used for training, but a lot of it is pseudo wilderness.

Ok, thats it for now. I'm sure I'll think of some other stuff. Glad to hear you're thinking about moving to the neighborhood.

Byron100 · Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

Consensi · Tar Sands Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 91

bromius · Heavy Crude Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 143

There is definitely the possibility to catch some serious lake effect snow in that general area. The worst of it is south of there, in the Tug Hill area. That would be a hard area to live in.

Heineken · Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

My understanding (incorrect perhaps) is that the lake effect does not generally include the Adirondack region, although exceptions occur from time to time.

I'm so grateful to all of you for your intelligent, gracious, and indeed graceful commentary. We have such a fantastic group here, it's no wonder we come back so often (too often---addictively as it were).

Aunticipation is so right---one view of the place could change my mind to black in an instant. Maybe there's a huge radio tower right next to the property.

I'll let you all know what happens . . . including nothing at all.

Sometimes we have to dream. Dreams are like the exotic frames around the photos of our real lives.

In my mind, I keep going back to Patience's initial post on this thread. Do I really need this heap o' trouble in the midst of the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression? If I'm feeling so much stress just considering this change, isn't that a warning sign I should heed?

Also: Is it a good idea to drag my old mother into the wilds of the Adirondacks? Also to separate her from being able to visit my dad at the VA nursing facility in Richmond? And to leave my dad lying there for his remaining time with very few visits from his family? And to force my companion to give up his job? Isn't that selfish of me?

Plan B is to let natural events play out with my mother (who's 81), and then when I and my companion are truly free we could sell and go anywhere. Even to the Northwest. It would be best to sell everything and then just go looking, living out of motels if necessary. But whether I will be physically able to do plan B or whether the world then existing will accommodate it are questions that loom large. Peak Oil and the Great Warming force all of us to do advance planning and make changes that not long ago would have looked ridiculous.

I am fond of my tree farm and would not like to let it go so soon after buying it. No, I can't keep it AND go to live in upstate New York, Auntie and Consensi. The distance is too massive, for me anyway.

If only it wasn't so hellaciously hot (and generally dry) here. It's odd that I'm having this spasm just as the summer heat is ending and I can look forward to a glorious autumn that starts now and lasts until next May. But I have this feeling, "Well, I've survived another central Virginia summer; how many more do I have IN me??"

Plan C is to stay here, hunker down as possible, and die here. Ludi's plan.
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

cudabachi · Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

Heineken,

Why don't you just do what I do with a tough decision? I toss a coin and if I'm not pleased with the result, then I know which answer is right for me.

Seriously, it is a tough decision though one I'm sure you'll make wisely.

My only advice would be that you really have to see the place firsthand before making a commitment. The human mind is capable of painting some beautiful pictures but sometimes once we see a place we've been dreaming of it turns out not to be what we'd envisioned.

Another thought that comes to mind are your plans for any timber on the place. I ask because if it's your intention to sell timber from time to time, be aware that timber growth in the far north is much different than in the South.

I've hunted the same region of Manitoba for 5 years now and the timber appears not to have changed a bit! And one area that I hunt was burned over 20 years ago and the trees are about 15 feet tall. In Mississippi, where I've also hunted for many years, we get 15 feet of growth in about 4 years!

Good luck and do keep us posted.

vtsnowedin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Posts: 633

vtsnowedin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Posts: 633

Heinikin If you move up you can go ice fishing and have the joys of mud season.

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/warrenl_bucket/?action=view&current=DSCN0387.jpg

http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/warrenl_bucket/?action=view&current=mudseason005-1-1.jpg

Heineken · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

Heineken · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

Byron100 · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

So when will you decide about taking a trip up there or not? Just don't bring your checkbook with ya...lol.

But seriously, taking such a field trip now would be very educational and helpful for making the decision as to whether such a move would be worthwhile for your personal situation. Nothing like getting a "feel" of a place in person. In my case (when I did a scouting trip in '04), I knew I wanted to live up there someday, but I chose the "Plan B" option...putting it off into the future when I know I can feel more confident about moving up there.

About the snow, I can remember some one-foot plus snows back in the 80's when I lived in North Carolina...man, that was plain fun! It's when I learned how to drive in heavy, unplowed snow with my 4WD. I even played taxi for some of my mom's nursing friends in one of those "southern blizzards." Just thinking about snow is making me itchy about moving north. Very Happy

If only we had global cooling instead of global warming...I could just stay put here and wait for the snows to come to me...hehe.

Anyhow, I know you'll be keeping us posted whatever you do decide. I'm just the impatient sort, is all...lol. Smile

_________________
Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide...
...and the meek shall inherit the Earth!

Heineken · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

My obsession is related more to that particular property than to the idea of going north, Byron. For me the big pond is the whole thing. 16 acres of it. Imagine that.

I'll let you know if I look at the place!
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

Byron100 · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

Olaf · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

I'm south of there as you know Heineken, smack in the middle of the lake effect snow region. the snow can be rough, and the winters can be brutally cold; but if you're well prepared, it is a wonderful place to live.

New York State does have some truly fantastic habitat and natural places. It is sometimes stunning to me how much of the state is undeveloped.

I just spent a great weekend in the Allegany State Park and Letchworth State Park.

Follow your instincts and be prepared for some hard work, as I am sure you are.

Olafr
_________________
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau

Heineken · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Should I Move There?

Thanks for your insights, Olaf. I was hoping we'd hear from you.

I am sure used to hard work. E.g., I dug out a 30,000-gallon pond by hand, and built an 8,000-pound dam of concrete and packed clay. I've built chicken coops and put in miles of trails. If I can do that sort of stuff, I'm sure I can shovel snow.

I was just talking with my mom some more about the situation. Our biggest concern seems to keep returning to the liquidation of our two Virginia properties. It's hard to "throw away" your life's work. But it's possible that if we waited till next year, or the year after that, they'd be worth even less. The economic situation seems to have no bottom, and that has me thinking the "D" word.
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother