Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Afrodiesel sounds like a new colonialism, probably with large plantations for the economies of scale. I wonder how much it will help African farmers. From the way things have worked before, quite likely many will be displaced from their subsistence farming and work as seasonal labourers on the huge biodiesel farms. Or does the proposed program have in mind a way to prevent this. If so, that would be good news. So far European trade practice with Africa is quite exploitive. _________________ Don't Worry, Be Happy
(B. McFerrin)
listen:
http://ubl.artistdirect.com/store/artist/album/0,,238303,00.html
Afrodiesel sounds like a new colonialism, probably with large plantations for the economies of scale. I wonder how much it will help African farmers. From the way things have worked before, quite likely many will be displaced from their subsistence farming and work as seasonal labourers on the huge biodiesel farms. Or does the proposed program have in mind a way to prevent this. If so, that would be good news. So far European trade practice with Africa is quite exploitive.
Well said. You point out obvious dangers. All monocultures have their drawbacks; American and European companies have a bad record when it comes to investing in agriculture in third world countries, and nope, there's no clear plan for a socially sustainable "afrodiesel" scheme.
The British government's biofuels committee stached the idea away in a big report, and no word about social sustainability there, only about profit margins and economic potential.
Still, it is possible, I think to create socially sustainable biodiesel farming in Africa, with both the local farmers and the Europeans making a profit (they get cash, and Europeans get Kyoto credits for investing in carbon sinks).
Note to the original poster: many biofuels are already competitive at today's (US$55/barrel) crude oil prices (palm oil costs US$10 less per barrel). _________________ The Beginning is Near!
To produce biodiesel, we would need a lot of water and nitrats. I'm not sure that people already starving in Africa are ready to spoil the little soil left for our cars.
Peak water is perhabs worse than oil one.
Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see the problem. Soybean oil http://www2.barchart.com/dfutpage.asp?sym=BO&code=BSTK grown in the USA, 22 cents a pound or about 35 cents a gallon, put it straight in a diesel car, no refining.
Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 30 Location: Idaho, USA
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:38 am Post subject:
mistel wrote:
Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see the problem. Soybean oil http://www2.barchart.com/dfutpage.asp?sym=BO&code=BSTK grown in the USA, 22 cents a pound or about 35 cents a gallon, put it straight in a diesel car, no refining.
That's true, but consider this:
Price is regulated by supply and demand. Right now the demand for soybeans isn't that high. Try to use it on a large scale, though, as fuel and you'd see supply drop and prices rise in a way that will make it prohibitively expensive. Also, consider that the current price of soybeans is based on current farming techniques. Oil for fertilizers, oil for farm equipment and oil for transport. When oil hits $200 a barrel nothing will be cheap. _________________ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin
Still, it is possible, I think to create socially sustainable biodiesel farming in Africa, with both the local farmers and the Europeans making a profit (they get cash, and Europeans get Kyoto credits for investing in carbon sinks).
why... exactly, should the already starving people in africa, make biodiessel? why should they need to drive cars? I'm sure more and more people will need to buy new cars (the process of car making is pretty shitty) I'm sure all they want to do is survive. Meaning...clean water and clean air.
I guess... I think cars are useless when compared to other things (like life).
It would 11 acres of corn to fuel a car for 10,000 miles. That 11 acres could feed seven people. also, not to mention that our form of argiculture is terrible and is based on expansion.
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