Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Re: What happened to the North America Union?
It was re-named;
http://www.spp.gov/ _________________ Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Re: What happened to the North America Union?
A different perspective:
http://www.canadians.org/integratethis/ _________________ Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1640 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: Re: What happened to the North America Union?
allenwrench wrote:
What happened to the North America Union?
Was in the news a few years ago and then it seemed to go bust? Is it still in our future?
Getting TOO cozy with the States has never been a big seller here in Canada. But I don't think it's been a harder sell in the past hundred years or so than it is right now. We seem to be divergent on nearly everything. The US seems bound and determined to make it harder for Canadians to simply come and go, and even for its own citizens to casually go abroad, even to Canada. Current conditions simply make it impossible. The best you're going to get is some kind of measure to fast-track the shipments of certain goods across the border, but more than that isn't in the cards with the US the way it is these days. If it ever recovers its senses and becomes more like it was before Reagan got elected, it might be more feasible... not to mention attractive to Canadians. But I haven't heard anyone in casual conversation advocate joining the US or even tying ourselves closer to it for years and years now. If anything, most people are talking about getting some distance and finding other trading partners. These days, it's a little like living next door to a guy whose hobby is defusing bombs in his basement... so far, so good, but... _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: Re: What happened to the North America Union?
Nickel wrote:
But I haven't heard anyone in casual conversation advocate joining the US or even tying ourselves closer to it for years and years now.
But it's never been about Canadian citizens mentioning in casual conversation that they would like to be part of one big country with the US, has it? The meetings that have been held regarding the SPP (Banff, Montebello, New Orleans) involve major corporations, heads of government and military of the three countries and do not allow media coverage of the meetings or minutes of the meetings to be available to the public. If the objectives of the SPP are to benefit the people in all three countries, why is it that we are not all privy to what's going on? Hardly anyone knew about the Banff meeting in 2006 (until after the fact); more people knew about the Montebello meeting in 2007, but we were not looked on very kindly when we protested this meeting, were we? Even our own NDP (Jack Layton) has concerns about the SPP and the lack of transparency surrounding it. Check out the letter in the link below.
Something I'd like to know: Why is it that I get phone calls here in Alberta from 1-800 numbers in the northeast US, asking me if I want to subscribe to the Edmonton Journal? Who owns the newspapers?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1640 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to the North America Union?
WildRose wrote:
Nickel wrote:
But I haven't heard anyone in casual conversation advocate joining the US or even tying ourselves closer to it for years and years now.
But it's never been about Canadian citizens mentioning in casual conversation that they would like to be part of one big country with the US, has it? The meetings that have been held regarding the SPP (Banff, Montebello, New Orleans) involve major corporations, heads of government and military of the three countries and do not allow media coverage of the meetings or minutes of the meetings to be available to the public.
Yeah, I know that; my point is, that's a long way from forging anything like a supra-national union. I mean, how do you think countries and corporations actually work out things between countries and corporations if countries and corporations never actually sit down and talk things over? That hardly automatically equates to drowning three nations in the vat of common governance. It's a bit much.
For instance, the Canadian dollar is established by legislation. It can't simply be disestablished by an order-in-council by the PM, or some diktat by the Minister of Finance. That would have to go through Parliament. A mechanism for harmonizing interest rates would have to be imposed on, or at least by, the Bank of Canada. The Bank is technically the property of the government and all its shares are vested in the Minister of Finance, but in practical terms it operates at arm's length. The last time a Minister of Finance attempted to strenuously instruct the Governor of the Bank against his wishes was the Coyne Affair back in the early 60s; it failed when the Senate refused to remove the Governor and was instrumental in the collapse of the Diefenbaker government. My point is, they could agree to sign over the moon in these meetings, if that's what they're really up to, but that's not the same thing as implementing those decisions. So effectively, if it's not happening "in public", then for all practical intents and purposes, it's not happening. If you don't agree, then I refer the honourable gentleman to the extremely public establishment of both the FTA and NAFTA in the late 1980s and mid-1990s.
WildRose wrote:
Something I'd like to know: Why is it that I get phone calls here in Alberta from 1-800 numbers in the northeast US, asking me if I want to subscribe to the Edmonton Journal? Who owns the newspapers?
Evidently someone who likes to outsource to New England. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to the North America Union?
It was never popular in Canada except among some Toronto stockbrokers and a few businessmen who wanted green cards. One newspaper columnist (name escapes me) kept pushing it, but that was his wet dream, not ours.
Since closer economic integration such as a common currency would have to go through the House of Commons, it wouldn't fly. Southern Ontario desperately misses the days of Can$=US$0.70 because the current situation of the loonie at par value or thereabouts has destroyed their manufacturing industry. The votes are in southern Ontario and Quebec, and neither would want to compete with American manufacturers on level ground.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1640 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: What happened to the North America Union?
DaleFromCalgary wrote:
Southern Ontario desperately misses the days of Can$=US$0.70 because the current situation of the loonie at par value or thereabouts has destroyed their manufacturing industry.
This is an unrealistic appraisal of the situation. Manufacturers in central Canada are NOT interested in returning to a dollar worth 70˘ US for the simple reason that the Canadian dollar has not GAINED in value against the US dollar -- in truth, the US dollar has LOST value against ours. Everyone wants to be paid in something worth something, and US dollars have been remarkably poor vehicles for maintaining their face value over time in recent years. Anyone Canada, east, west, or north, who was paid in US dollars in 2002 when ours was worth 62˘ US ($1.62 Canadian) and held onto them now holds a US dollar worth about $1.05 Canadian. In other words, the money he was paid six years ago has retained only about 64% of its value over time. The same holds true for oil dealers in Alberta. This is one reason why Canadians are increasingly interested in expanding our trade ties, particularly with the EU, which has a stable currency nowhere near as debt-laden and vulnerable as the US dollar. Manufacturers in central Canada don't want a 70˘ US Canadian dollar again; they just want to be paid in a currency that's going to be WORTH something in five, ten, twenty years, regardless of the exchange rate. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
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