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neocone
Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 257
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 Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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link Betcha our newly socialist powers will do the exact opposite of what is right: Ration the thing instead of letting those who can afford it buy it at will.
I have the feeling Freedom of the Market ain't that free anymore... to paraphrase the need for the Patriot act. |
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TheDude
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Joined: Apr 06, 2006
Posts: 3626
Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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Imminent? Nothing in the US escapes our roving eye, and the fuel shortages in the South have been a problem since Gustav landed.
If you mean nation wide, on the West coast that would require shutting off production in both Alaska and California, and curbing all imports as well, a tall bill of goods.
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C'mon man, who're you gonna believe? |
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nobodypanic
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jun 02, 2008
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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price of gas dropping here in VA. and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links.
for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store? |
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neocone
Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 257
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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You're right... the MSM will barely utter a peek about it. Also large cities will always be well stocked.. you don't wanna a massive riot situation in Hell A for exemple. But lobbies will take their slice before mainstreet can even dream of it.
Pentagon first dibs, then the truckers and the mafia (for the black market) and then the airlines, etc... In the gasoline pecking order unarmed citizens will be last... actually might be gasoline providers to the criminals who have guns so not even in the chain. |
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neocone
Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 257
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| nobodypanic wrote: | price of gas dropping here in VA. and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links.
for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store? |
Dude let the markets work and people be free to pay what they want. I despise the idiots who are in this "better red than dead" mentality.
The governement has already clearly failed... why give it even more means to screw up???? |
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threadbear
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Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 7790
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| nobodypanic wrote: | price of gas dropping here in VA and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links.
for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store? |
True. Rationing is a dream move compared to the alternative. |
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dsula
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| nobodypanic wrote: | and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links.
for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store? |
Absolutely and totally wrong. If the poor sabs can't go to work, the grocery chain will have to pay more salery so the saps can get to work. Any goverment control will distort the market and make it less efficient, encouraging waste. Who can pay for it should get it. |
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SILENTTODD
Intermediate Crude
Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 873
Location: Tustin, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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[quote="neocone"link Betcha our newly socialist powers will do the exact opposite of what is right: Ration the thing instead of letting those who can afford it buy it at will. I have the feeling Freedom of the Market ain't that free anymore... to paraphrase the need for the Patriot act.[/quote]
Oh! I get it! You must be talking about the Bush/Cheney administration! Their motto: “Socialism for Big Business; social darwinism for everyone else”.
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Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan |
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beamofthewave
Tar Sands
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| If we have good government it doesnt fail, what does fail is letting only rich people survive. And yes I am my brothers keeper, what sort of life is it when you let babies die because there is no power for the hospital and there are no doctors in the emergency room because there was no gas or only the really rich could afford the gas so the nurses could not get to work? If it is all about me, if honestly that is all Americans are about then when martial law comes I will sign on with Halibuton and be willing to hurt my fellow citizens. That is exactly what the poor in Rome did once they finally figured out the rich absolutley cared nothing about their fellow citizens and in my humble opinion Cicero got exactly what he had coming. |
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nobodypanic
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jun 02, 2008
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| neocone wrote: | | nobodypanic wrote: | | price of gas dropping here in VA and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links. for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store? |
Dude let the markets work and people be free to pay what they want. I despise the idiots who are in this "better red than dead" mentality. The governement has already clearly failed... why give it even more means to screw up???? |
the markets are why we are here in the first place. they do not work as well as advertised. they are short sighted, stupid, lack the ability to properly prioritize, and react too slowly to crisis. |
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nobodypanic
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jun 02, 2008
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| dsula wrote: | | nobodypanic wrote: | | and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links. for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store? |
Absolutely and totally wrong. If the poor sabs can't go to work, the grocery chain will have to pay more salery so the saps can get to work. Any goverment control will distort the market and make it less efficient, encouraging waste. Who can pay for it should get it. |
you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet? |
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dsula
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| nobodypanic wrote: | | you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet? |
you don't get it, do you? If I own the gas station I have a choice. Either not sell anything at all or pay the poor fellow MORE salery so he can get to work. I will of course then also increase my prices as to cover my additional expenses. Get it yet ? In a true free market there is no shortage of anything, everything can be purchased at a price. In a controlled market, there are shortages. |
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HEADER_RACK
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 540
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| dsula wrote: | | nobodypanic wrote: | | you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet? |
you don't get it, do you? If I own the gas station I have a choice. Either not sell anything at all or pay the poor fellow MORE salery so he can get to work. I will of course then also increase my prices as to cover my additional expenses. Get it yet ? In a true free market there is no shortage of anything, everything can be purchased at a price. In a controlled market, there are shortages. |
You don't get it. So you pay them a higher salary in order for them to afford gas to get to work. Everyone gets paid more to get gas to go to work.
Now everyone can afford gas again. Not enough gas to go around again . Price rises again on gas. People can't afford to go to work again. Are you going to give them another pay raise? Merry-go-round has to stop somewhere.
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Nothing is more dangerous than a man with nothing left to lose but has everything left to gain. |
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nobodypanic
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jun 02, 2008
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| dsula wrote: | | nobodypanic wrote: | | you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet? |
you don't get it, do you? If I own the gas station I have a choice. Either not sell anything at all or pay the poor fellow MORE salery so he can get to work. I will of course then also increase my prices as to cover my additional expenses. Get it yet ? In a true free market there is no shortage of anything, everything can be purchased at a price. In a controlled market, there are shortages. |
if there isn't enough gas for everyone to get around, then when you, and everyone else raises wages (which i doubt would happen quickly enough), there still won't be enough gas for everyone to get around. your scheme relies not only on your worker having more money relative to some other worker, so he can buy the gas that would otherwise go to that person, but that there is still discretionary demand to wipe out.
edit: header said it better than me.  |
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dsula
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent? |
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| HEADER_RACK wrote: | | You don't get it. So you pay them a higher salary in order for them to afford gas to get to work. Everyone gets paid more to get gas to go to work. Now everyone can afford gas again. Not enough gas to go around again . Price rises again on gas. People can't afford to go to work again. Are you going to give them another pay raise? Merry-go-round has to stop somewhere. |
Now look at that, do you think the world is that simple? Maybe I'm a smart enterpreneur. Maybe I have creative ideas? Maybe I have a proposal for my clerk: Listen, gas is expensive and I can't pay you more for gas, but I need you to work. I propose a deal. I pay you a big bonus so you can relocate within walking distance of the gas station. Does that sound good? It's better than you loosing your job and me having to close the station, won't you agree?"
Oh there are so many possibilities. But you're right people without ideas that expect business as usual will have a hard time. THERE ARE NO SHORTAGES IN A FREE MARKET. |
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