Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: There is an alternative to oil
turmoil wrote:
Allhydrogen wrote:
Apparently you have not visited the website to understand the process. When a fuel cell is added to a electolyte water soloution of sodium/magnesium chloride (seawater), a electrochemical reaction occurs creating an unlimited sourcer of hydrogen gas-no electricity or external source of power is used. Education is most important, as there are more hydrogen technolgies coming out of the labroatory. Have you ever heard of the "cold fusion" oprocess?
The most important benefit of using hydrogen , is that no greenhouse gases, no military for wars to secure a "cheep" source of energy to destroy teh eco system. Truth passes 3 stages-ridicule, violently opposed and accepted as self evident.
Well, I went to the site and it says that they take 100 gallons of sea water and, using an external energy source (yup), they create a block of magnesium and aluminum. Then to use the hydrogen that is attached to the block, it is attached to a stainless steel cathode, and the end-user submerses it in sea water, which releases h2 until it corrodes (gets used up). But you still have to create the block in the first place and then get it and sea water to where you need it.
Sounds like EROEI < 1.
The idea of Allhydrogen is yet another example of "energy from nowhere" nonsense.
Guy should learn some basic thermodynamic not make himself looking a fool in the future.
The scam described above works like this:
1. We are producing metallic magnesium by electrolysis of molten magnesium chloride (or by reducing its oxide with silicon at 1800*C or with carbon above 2000*C in electric furnace in vacuum - magnesium distills off).
These processess are VERY energy intensive.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to produce magnesium by electrolysis of water solution of its salts, unless you want to work with LARGE amounts of mercury as well, mercury would be a cathode in the set up (also energy intensive with plenty of toxic waste as a "bonus").
2. It is correct, that metallic magnesium WILL react with salty water (especially with warm one), slowly producing hydrogen.
EROEI of all this nonsense would be in range of 0.2-0.3 at best.
If one would decide to produce hydrogen by direct electrolysis, without bullshiting around magnesium, he may get EROEI in range of 0.85, if he tries hard.
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: There is an alternative to oil
Instead of hoping for some pie in the sky way to get out of the oil mess, get some seeds and go start a garden. Time is running short. There is an alternative to oil. It is called simple living. People lived that way for thousands of years. It is a mindset. Get a grip, you cant eat nuts and bolts. Oxen are the alternative.
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: There is an alternative to oil
aflurry wrote:
you want to run your automobile fleet on hydrogen? first try making a campfire out of a pile of ashes, because it is exactly the same thing. water is burnt hydrogen. expended. depleted. finished. you can only reconstitute it by adding energy... and more than you can get back out.
This is a neat, enlightening way of describing water. I don't think I will ever drink another glass without thinking of burnt hydrogen.
Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 269 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: There is an alternative to oil
Well, I read the thread anyways after reading the title and the name used by the original poster. Then I immediately saw the OP's number of posts and thought, "Well there's a marshmellow about to be toasted". He could have spent less than an hour searching the site and he would have known here his post would lead. It's too bad that Americans so desperately want that one magic bullet that will replace oil. Pretty sad, and naive.
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: There is an alternative to oil
Well, yeah. We have created a new generation, one step more
than Allhydrogen. This is unlimited capacity, and can definitely be
modified to the G.E. or Rolls-Royce Turbine platform. See a blog @
http://dubai.craigslist.org/fns/832857127.html It is seemingly
impossible to get a minor amount of money, to finish the Beta testing
and get laboratory approvals. 'Cause once installed, there is not any
money to be made. Just the introduction of ionized water, that's it!
So, here we are. BUT if these single-minded oil people would just
understand, we cannot live without oil! Half of your car is plastic,
the medical industry, the container industry, and it goes on and on.
Plus, we still need gear oils, hydraulic fluids, brake fluids....it goes on
forever. When will they wake up, and realize Hydrogen would not kill
their monies off, but the environment sure will!!! T.B. Pickets is in
a space quandary. I hope the food is good there!
[align=justify][align=left]
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2
Page 2 of 2
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
