Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 447 Location: Windy City No Longer
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Fortis bank in the BeNeLux in trouble
Gerben wrote:
benzoil wrote:
Interesting. They own ABN Ambro, who owns LaSalle Bank - a large regional bank in the US Midwest. I wonder how a parent bank's woes affect its subsidiaries...
ABN AMRO was bought by a consortium of banks and split up. LaSalle was sold to Bank of America in 2007.
Thanks for the correction! I quit banking with them when I left Chicago so I only followed the sale tangentially. _________________ TANSTAAFL
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: Benelux's biggest bank crashing - bailout
A few weeks ago, I posted a notice here in which the boss of the Benelux's biggest bank - Fortis - warned of a global financial "meltdown". Well, at least he's right about his own bank, which has just crashed.
Quote:
Sale or break-up Fortis managers and government officials were considering two options for the beleaguered bank, the people said: A sale to a single buyer, or a break-up of the bank, which operates insurance and banking businesses throughout the wealthy Benelux region. Either option could depend on the willingness of government and central-bank officials to provide financial assistance or take on bad assets.
Well done, losers. I'm not paying a single dime to save this bank. If the politicians of my current government force me to, I will never vote for their capitalist pig parties ever again. I still have my membership card of the communist party, and I'm prouder than ever to be carrying it around. Capitalism is bankrupt. Now the only thing we need is for the people to take back the economy. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 393 Location: Holland, Belgica Foederata (Republic of the Seven United Netherlands)
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Fortis bank in the BeNeLux in trouble
Update:
Quote:
Dutch central bank chief Nout Wellink and Finance Minister Wouter Bos went to Brussels for talks with the Belgian government and regulators. European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet met with Belgian Prime Minister Yves Leterme and Finance Minister Didier Reynders today.
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Benelux's biggest bank crashing - bailout
lorenzo : Your post could have been done by Joe Sixpack himself (or Vladimir Sixvodkas should I say as you mention your communist membership...). People want scapegoats while every one of us are guilty and victims of our own greed. Peak oil is the reason of the current economic crash. Forget politics, subprimes or bad speculators.
Growth is our paradigm. We have forgotten that we are on a finite planet with finite ressources.
You can bring back communism or keep capitalism, or even invent some awesome economic system we have never thought about, as soon as our civilization is based on the exponential use of non renewable ressources, we are doomed to fail.
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Benelux's biggest bank crashing - bailout
DefiledEngine wrote:
Hmm the goverment forcing you to pay to save the collective, isn't that exactly what communism is all about?
Indeed, that is: the exact opposite of what's happening now: the government forcing us to pay out some irresponsible private individual bankers.
To me, all banks must be nationalised, and stay in the People's hands. What's happening now is a bail-out: my money is being stolen and handed over to private bankers, whose bank will be private again in a few years time. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Joined: Aug 23, 2004 Posts: 574 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Benelux's biggest bank crashing - bailout
lorenzo wrote:
DefiledEngine wrote:
Hmm the goverment forcing you to pay to save the collective, isn't that exactly what communism is all about?
Indeed, that is: the exact opposite of what's happening now: the government forcing us to pay out some irresponsible private individual bankers. To me, all banks must be nationalised, and stay in the People's hands. What's happening now is a bail-out: my money is being stolen and handed over to private bankers, whose bank will be private again in a few years time.
So the government who is forcing you to do something you dont like should be given absolute authority? _________________ Congress has found themselves in a bear trap. They will chew off three legs, and still be caught in it...
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fortis bank in the BeNeLux in trouble
Well, they are not searching for solutions anymore, Fortis has been rescued:
Quote:
Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Fortis, the largest Belgian financial-services firm, received an 11.2 billion-euro ($16.3 billion) rescue from Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg after investor confidence in the bank evaporated last week.
Belgium will buy 49 percent of Fortis's Belgian banking unit for 4.7 billion euros, while the Netherlands will pay 4 billion euros for a similar stake in the Dutch banking business, the governments said in a statement late yesterday. Luxembourg will provide a 2.5 billion-euro loan convertible into 49 percent of Fortis's banking division in that country.
Fortis is the largest European firm so far caught up in the global financial crisis that drove Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. into bankruptcy two weeks ago and prompted U.S. President George W. Bush to seek a $700 billion bank rescue package. Fortis dropped 35 percent last week in Brussels trading on concern the company would struggle to replenish capital depleted by the 24.2 billion-euro takeover of ABN Amro Holding NV units and credit writedowns.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Benelux's biggest bank crashing - bailout
idiom wrote:
lorenzo wrote:
DefiledEngine wrote:
Hmm the goverment forcing you to pay to save the collective, isn't that exactly what communism is all about?
Indeed, that is: the exact opposite of what's happening now: the government forcing us to pay out some irresponsible private individual bankers. To me, all banks must be nationalised, and stay in the People's hands. What's happening now is a bail-out: my money is being stolen and handed over to private bankers, whose bank will be private again in a few years time.
So the government who is forcing you to do something you dont like should be given absolute authority?
You obviously have no insight in how communism works. Communists overthrow right-wing bourgeois governments. Think Lenin, Mao or Castro. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3911 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Re: THE Fortis Thread (merged) ( was Fortis chairman predic
Dutch media split over Fortis nationalization Sat Oct 4, 2008
Quote:
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - The government decision to nationalize the Dutch banking and insurance units of Fortis after the financial services group hit an acute cash crunch divided the country's media on Saturday.
In a surprise announcement on Friday, the Dutch government said it would pay 16.8 billion euros ($23.3 billion) for assets including Fortis's interest in ABN AMRO, the Dutch bank it bought in a consortium with Royal Bank of Scotland Plc last year.
The second state rescue of the Belgian-Dutch group in less than a week, which replaced last weekend's Benelux rescue package, effectively breaks up the cross-border group along national lines. …
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