Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
The author obvioulsy is more knowledgable than he lets on. Preparation for a protracted oil stoppage would not include a permanent shift from internal combustion to electric as the author implies. _________________ We are so screwed.
Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 145 Location: Saratoga County, NY
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: Re: protracted oil stoppage
Look, let's forget about retrofitting cars and all this nonsense for a moment. The biggest single consumer of oil in the world is the US DOD. You simply can't run battleships, bombers and tanks on "green" energy. Bush knows this. Iraq was not about WMD. If a "stoppage" were to happen, there is nothing "stopping" the monster from feeding. It will take the oil it needs to survive from wherever it wants as necessary until it dies from starvation. Think about what the planet will look like once that finally happens.
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: protracted oil stoppage
DarkDawg wrote:
Look, let's forget about retrofitting cars and all this nonsense for a moment. The biggest single consumer of oil in the world is the US DOD. You simply can't run battleships, bombers and tanks on "green" energy. Bush knows this. Iraq was not about WMD. If a "stoppage" were to happen, there is nothing "stopping" the monster from feeding. It will take the oil it needs to survive from wherever it wants as necessary until it dies from starvation. Think about what the planet will look like once that finally happens.
Not a pretty picture. And I imangine many USA hater countries who provide usa with oil have dreamed of cutting usa off and watching usa choke. I imagine the only thing stopping them is the fear of attack. But if those countries all got together and slowly choked off the usa until they hadn't enough oil or money left to sustain a long assault???? Well now. That would be interesting. _________________ We are so screwed.
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1371 Location: East Texas
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Re: protracted oil stoppage
Unfortunately for that argument, the US produces much more oil internally than the DoD consumes, and will continue to do so for a very long time.
DoD is not going without.
You may be walking your kids to school; but the military will still be driving, flying, and motoring along. _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1636 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: Re: protracted oil stoppage
+1 to AgentR.
Priority of oil distribution when there are shortages:
1. US military
2. Agriculture
3. Elites
...
We're way down the list and we'll be walking. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
I agree, good piece. Intrigued by the notion of Edison and Ford sidelined by corporate intrigue, I looked up "Electrant" and found another very interesting interview: EVWORLD FEATURE: A 'Black' History of our Oil Addiction
I agree, good piece. Intrigued by the notion of Edison and Ford sidelined by corporate intrigue, I looked up "Electrant" and found another very interesting interview: EVWORLD FEATURE: A 'Black' History of our Oil Addiction
Great, another book I need to read! I haven't finished Twilghlight in the Desert yet.
And yes, the sidelining of an entire alternate electric reality is very intriguing. Instead of being in the pickle we're in, we could be thriving in an electric world. Imagine, everywhere you go the energy supply is electricity. Instead of all of our railways getting paved over and turned into bike paths, they would carry electric trains that would deliver goods. Cities would all be electric trollies, buses and subways. And when off grid, you get places in your light weight electric car. Need to go to the country store for some locally grown food? ONce you get there, you just plug in, put in 75 cents and charge up while you shop. You go to a friend's house off grid, and plug in at a multi plugged post in the driveway. And even if all that electricity was provided by power plants that ran on fossil fuels (coal, diesel, gas, natural gas), we would be nowhere near peak oil today. Where is a time machine when you need one! _________________ We are so screwed.
The end of the Red Cars is related to the replacement of streetcar lines with bus lines in at least 45 other American cities, including Baltimore, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Salt Lake City, and Oakland, CA. National City Lines, a consortium formed and owned by General Motors, Standard Oil of California, and Firestone, bought up private streetcar lines across the country and systematically dismantled them, replacing electric trolley service, at least partially, with buses. The move came to be known as the Great American Streetcar Scandal.
In 1949, nine corporations, including General Motors, Standard Oil of California, Firestone Tire and others, plus seven individuals, constituting officers and directors of certain of the corporate defendants, were acquitted in the Federal District Court of Northern Illinois of conspiring to monopolize the ownership of transportation companies with the intent of monopolizing transportation services. At the same time, they were convicted in a second count of conspiring to monopolize the sale of buses and related products to local transit companies controlled by the defendants. The court considered the violations to be relatively minor, as the corporate defendants were only fined $5,000, and the individual company directors that had been charged only had to pay a symbolic fine of one dollar each. The verdicts were upheld on appeal.
Trolley (large) _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Great, another book I need to read! I haven't finished Twilghlight in the Desert yet. And yes, the sidelining of an entire alternate electric reality is very intriguing. Instead of being in the pickle we're in, we could be thriving in an electric world.
But where does electricity come from? It's not oil... Ummm lemme guess wind and solar is going to run our electric life style including China, India, Africa, Russia, Brazil et el... (factories, cars, agriculture everyting)
SAVED lets do it... We can still do it, unprecedent change, momentus events, "Manhattan type project" etc.. etc.. happy happy happy LOL _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
I agree, good piece. Intrigued by the notion of Edison and Ford sidelined by corporate intrigue, I looked up "Electrant" and found another very interesting interview: EVWORLD FEATURE: A 'Black' History of our Oil Addiction
Great, another book I need to read! I haven't finished Twilghlight in the Desert yet.
And yes, the sidelining of an entire alternate electric reality is very intriguing. Instead of being in the pickle we're in, we could be thriving in an electric world.
But where does electricity come from? It's not oil... Ummm lemme guess wind and solar is going to run our electric life style including China, India, Africa, Russia, Brazil et el... (factories, cars, agriculture everyting)
SAVED lets do it...
We can still do it, unprecedent change, momentus events, "Manhattan type project" etc.. etc.. happy happy happy LOL
Though futile conversation, I believe we have been talking about what might have been. How to become electric now, well that is probably another exercise in futility. More than anything now, it just makes me sad. _________________ We are so screwed.
I agree, good piece. Intrigued by the notion of Edison and Ford sidelined by corporate intrigue, I looked up "Electrant" and found another very interesting interview: EVWORLD FEATURE: A 'Black' History of our Oil Addiction
Great, another book I need to read! I haven't finished Twilghlight in the Desert yet.
And yes, the sidelining of an entire alternate electric reality is very intriguing. Instead of being in the pickle we're in, we could be thriving in an electric world.
But where does electricity come from? It's not oil... Ummm lemme guess wind and solar is going to run our electric life style including China, India, Africa, Russia, Brazil et el... (factories, cars, agriculture everyting)
SAVED lets do it...
We can still do it, unprecedent change, momentus events, "Manhattan type project" etc.. etc.. happy happy happy LOL
Though futile conversation, I believe we have been talking about what might have been. How to become electric now, well that is probably another exercise in futility. More than anything now, it just makes me sad.
Don't feel so bad. Exponential growth of population and economy would have de-railed any notion happy electrical future forever and ever. Perhaps we could have delayed things for 10-15 years perhaps we would have sped up warming of the atmosphere. _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: Re: protracted oil stoppage
Quote:
Don't feel so bad. Exponential growth of population and economy would have de-railed any notion happy electrical future forever and ever. Perhaps we could have delayed things for 10-15 years perhaps we would have sped up warming of the atmosphere.
All too true. What we need is a good old fashion plague! _________________ We are so screwed.
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