Oil's energy contribution has declined by about 12% since 1999. The world's economies have also declined by about 12%. (Using conventional metrics, which are time delayed determinations, this will only be seen in hind sight). The massive destruction of asset values now occurring testifies to it happening.
Peak is well behind us, world economies have peaked and will continue to decline.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: Superpails
I got my first order from Sorbent Systems yesterday. The bags were not quite what I was expecting. It looked from their website that the 20x30 bag would line a 5 gallon bucket. That's clearly not the case. More like 2 gallons maybe, which is actually fine. So a couple of questions.
What size bags do you use to line a 5 gallon bucket?
Anyone have any experience or thoughts about storing dry dog food in super pails? I'm guessing it has kind of a high fat content so it might be good to rotate it at least every couple of years.
Also I'm wondering how people are going about storing cooking oil. Do you just store the one gallon jugs from Safeway? Does a solid oil like lard or coconut oil resist going rancid any better? Is there any special way to store oils so they're less likely to rancid? For example would sealinig the oil bottle in a mylar bag with an oxygen absorber help? _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 826 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
SPG
I've bee reading as much as possible about oil storage. Seems there no magic answer. Oils all go rancid over time. The best storage times I've read about have been coconut oil. Not the best oil from a cardiovascular standpoint, but hey, survival would be more of an issue. Solid Crisco has a relatively long shelf life also. I've been storing about a years worth, then giving them away at the local food banks if I don't use them up.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
solid oils do resist rancidity better. rancidity is caused by oxygen so the liner and O2 absorber should help although I don't know how much. _________________ Remember every mighty oak tree started with some nut who stood their ground.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
This is one of the articles that I've had bookmarked for storing oil. I haven't tried it yet for myself... now I wish I had, so I could let you know whether or not it worked. I did also buy powdered butter, and canned butter, the seller claimed it has a shelf life of 10 years minimum, but I have a feeling that it needs to be kept refrigerated to stay edible for that amount of time...
My bags are the same size as yours.
The pet food I would guess it would be okay for maybe 2 or 3 years.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
SPG - 20by30 is the standard 5 gallon/6 gallon Mylar bag size. I can personally assure you that the bag will fit a standard bucket.
So here are the possibilities:
1. You are trying to put the bag in a non-standard 5 gallon bucket.
2. The bags are not 20 by 30 inches.
3. You haven't actually tried to put the bags into a standard 5 gallon bucket, and have only eyeballed. it.
4. It's a 20 by 30 inch mylar bag, but the opening is on the wrong edge of the bag - the opening should be on the 20 inch side.
SPG - please post which of the 4 it was, I'm curious. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1476 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
Keeping oils cool should help. If the bottle hasn't been opened the oil won't be exposed to air, which should also help.
Anything that could go rancid if exposed to air (like dog food) should probably either get oxygen absorbers or go in the freezer. _________________ Conservation is conservative
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
Doh! The answer is:
Cashmere wrote:
2. The bags are not 20 by 30 inches.
The bags they sent are 17x10. _________________ "We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
I have some emergency cooking oil in the freezer. I just bought it in gallon jugs at the grocery and put it on the bottom. I've heard that you can get 5+ years this way.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
The local Home Depot has its Homer Buckets and lids on sale. Buckets at $2.78, lids at $0.98, about half the regular price. I snatched up a bunch of them. Not at nice as Superpails, but I find them to be of good quality. Lids have a rubber gasket, when snapped on, have a plastic strip that needs to be torn off to open the pail. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
kpeavey wrote:
The local Home Depot has its Homer Buckets and lids on sale. Buckets at $2.78, lids at $0.98, about half the regular price. I snatched up a bunch of them. Not at nice as Superpails, but I find them to be of good quality. Lids have a rubber gasket, when snapped on, have a plastic strip that needs to be torn off to open the pail.
IMO, if you intend to use metal lined Mylar bags inside buckets, any old 5 gallon bucket will probably work fine, including, for example, empty sheet rock mud buckets.
"Food grade" buckets are intended for direct contact with food; that's why they need to be free of contaminants.
If you line the buckets with Mylar, however, then no contaminants are going to get to your food anyway.
Just my opinion - I use clean food grade buckets, but in a pinch I'd have no problem using any buckets that have been cleaned well and that didn't contain biohazard or nuclear waste, as long as metal lined foil was between the bucket and food. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
Cashmere wrote:
if you intend to use metal lined Mylar bags inside buckets, any old 5 gallon bucket will probably work fine, including, for example, empty sheet rock mud buckets.
I concur. Superpails have thicker plastic to reduce oxygen penetration as well as the gamma seal lid for the same reason.
Mylar bags do the same thing. Add oxygen absorbers to either the mylar or the superpails, oxygen is removed. Mylar needs protection from puncturing is all. I have wheat, rice, corn, sugar, milo, soybeans, split peas, and all sorts of beans in mylar, then store the bags in buckets and those blue rubbermaid tubs. The blue tubs just don't hold the weight that a good stout bucket will. 75 pounds in tub will squish the tub underneath. I've got buckets stacked 5 high.
Home Depot sells a tub called a TOUGH BOX. 30x20x14 high, 27 gallons, supposed to hold 700 pounds. Cost was $18 or so, figure .67/gallon, compared to the Homer Pails at $.80/gallon. Its tough all right. These tubs have some molded strength parts which woould cut into a mylar bag. I put a towel on the bottom to protect the bags. When you consider ease of moving, the buckets beat the tubs. It's all I use now. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
Whatever happened to lard in old coffee cans?
_________________ "By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
Does anyone know what store I can get oxygen absorbers other than on line. I am in a hurry after I read that Debka story about the USA going to war with Syria if Syria invades Lebanon. Kind of got me freaked out. Do those mylar bags also offer insulation?
Joined: Dec 02, 2007 Posts: 193 Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Superpails
smallpoxgirl wrote:
I got my first order from Sorbent Systems yesterday. The bags were not quite what I was expecting. It looked from their website that the 20x30 bag would line a 5 gallon bucket. That's clearly not the case. More like 2 gallons maybe, which is actually fine. So a couple of questions.
What size bags do you use to line a 5 gallon bucket?
Anyone have any experience or thoughts about storing dry dog food in super pails? I'm guessing it has kind of a high fat content so it might be good to rotate it at least every couple of years.
Also I'm wondering how people are going about storing cooking oil. Do you just store the one gallon jugs from Safeway? Does a solid oil like lard or coconut oil resist going rancid any better? Is there any special way to store oils so they're less likely to rancid? For example would sealinig the oil bottle in a mylar bag with an oxygen absorber help?
I got an order from them about 2 months ago. I got the 26"x36" ones. I didn't buy them with the intention to line the pail, more to store the product I wanted airtight inside the pail. The pail is merely the hard outer shell of the contents inside the bag. But they are bigger than the pail height wise, and wider. This is good as it allows you to maximize the storage in the pail.
Anything with lots of oil in it will not store for more than 3 years tops without going rancid. And this is three years stored in a pail in a Mylar bag with an O2 absorber. Brown rice for example has oil in the husk which is why it's bad to store for long term like white rice. (white rice has little nutritional value but lots of calories so you will need to supplement your diet with the nutrients stripped off) Your dog food will be rancid within 36 months. White rice can store for 30 years. Brown rice 3 years tops.
I have read that margarine, lard, or any hard oil lasts for years in a freezer. Storing flowing oil in a Mylar bag with an O2 absorber wouldn't work. One, as soon as the absorber got moist/wet, it stops working. Two, you'd have to suspend the oil in the bag. Yuck! I am presuming if it is kept cold like a freezer it will last for at least 3 years.
Also, it's not just the air that makes any lard, oil, margarine, etc. rancid. It's also any kind of light. Sun, artificial, etc. If you want any food to last LONGER when properly stored, it has to be 100% removed from any light. I see some people here storing food in see thru pails. Not good unless this is the short term pails. Long term, you have to block ALL the light out. So if you're going to store solid oils and fats, put them in a pail in a Mylar bag, put in O2 absorbers, and store the pail in a COLD place. Or, skip the pail and put the individual items in a freezer directly.
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