I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: Aug 23, 2004 Posts: 530 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
mos6507 wrote:
galacticsurfer wrote:
Say they all go bankrupt and PO crash hits. Could the factories in the rust belt be put to good use making wind mills or similar green stuff for a new economy by govt. or private?
US industry has no concept of diversification. Japanese companies are experts at that. Take Yamaha for instance. They make motorcycles and musical instruments. Talk about two totally different things. Mitsubishi makes cars and consumer electronics. The list goes on.
You would have to be out of your mind to buy a Plasma screen from Ford. _________________ Congress has found themselves in a bear trap. They will chew off three legs, and still be caught in it...
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
A wee push to GM, maybe the last one? Closure this very week?
Quote:
Moody's sends GM ratings deeper into junk status
NEW YORK (Associated Press) - Credit ratings agency Moody's Investors Service on Monday cut three of its ratings on General Motors Corp., citing the severe contraction of the U.S. auto market.
Moody's downgraded GM's corporate family and probability of default ratings to "Caa2" from "Caa1," sending them further into non-investment grade, or "junk," status.
The agency also cut GM's speculative grade liquidity rating to "SGL-4" from "SGL-2" with a negative outlook, and placed its "B3" senior unsecured rating on the company's finance arm, GMAC, on review for a possible downgrade.
Moody's said the steep decline in the U.S. auto sector will likely outpace GM's ability to respond effectively, even with the assistance from the $25 billion low-interest loan program from the federal government.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4886 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
Revi wrote:
Ford is up 2 cents today, despite the tanking of the stock market.
Why?
Cheap gas. And the printing presses have just been turned on starting today.
Mostly it's just the cheap gas. In 1979 it was over $1.00/gallon. Now it's under $2.00 in places. After inflation that means gas is darn near free now compared to 1979. _________________ Got Dharma?
Joined: Aug 23, 2004 Posts: 530 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
Let them go bankrupt under the next guy.
But wooo! Gas is free again! _________________ Congress has found themselves in a bear trap. They will chew off three legs, and still be caught in it...
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
The sad fact is that both GM and Ford have very good line up of fuel-efficient cars--GM has Opel in Europe and Ford has its own European models marketed under Ford name (it also still owns Volvo). If you check the Ford homepage you can see some of these cars--completely different from what they offer US buyers. Ford is supposed to be re-tooling plants to sell these cars in the States--but I would start importing them immediately and let US consumers become acquainted with them.
GM seems to be developing completely new line of small, fuel-efficient cars for US market, which does not make sense given that they already have the Opel models (which they were even selling successfully in Japan). Again, one has to question wisdom of GM management.
But I am not among those who think it wise to let these 'dinosaurs' die--that would ensure another half-million unemployed and certainly contribute to something more than a recession. If necessary, they should hire more European and Asian engineers and stylists--and perhaps a few Japanese and German quality control types.
Joined: Jun 03, 2008 Posts: 190 Location: Terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
GM is reporting Q3 global sales down 11% vs. 5.8% for Q1/Q2. This is very bad. I haven't been able to dig up earnings numbers yet, there was rumor they were going to hold off reporting earnings until after the election. _________________ Who are you going to turn to when all the crazy Peak-oil doomers end up being right?
Joined: Jan 13, 2006 Posts: 143 Location: toronto, not anymore
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
in my local area theres lots of auto sector contract companies that do plastic or part manufacturing. these companies have been laying off steady for a year now and some are out of buisness entirly or closing shop and and adding to their mexico manufacture base.
this is the tolling bell for Noth America, i know 3 people who work for the auto industry and these guys will lose everything ie. pension, job,invstments ect. _________________ LOOKING FOR -a view of the enditems-
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
Apologies if this has already been discussed:
Is it safe to say that no matter what happens, the US government won't allow these companies to fail, at least for a few years? "Too big to fail" as they say.
What politician would want to be faced with the massive consequences of hundreds of thousands of simultaneous lay-offs followed by the demise of sub-contractors with potentially millions of employees?
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
RSFB wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed:
Is it safe to say that no matter what happens, the US government won't allow these companies to fail, at least for a few years? "Too big to fail" as they say.
What politician would want to be faced with the massive consequences of hundreds of thousands of simultaneous lay-offs followed by the demise of sub-contractors with potentially millions of employees?
The question would be, how do you STOP them from failing?
If people are unemployed and cannot afford to buy the cars they produce, how can GM,Ford, Chrysler et al make any money? Why bail them out? Why not just give every American a Car Stimulus Check to go out and buy a new Prius?
Pumping money into these complanies to tranfuse the flow of red ink isn't going to save them, they just can't sell cars to people who are out of work or who are not buying because they are worried that tomorrow they will lose their job.
There are more than enough cars out there on the road right now to keep us going for a decade or more. I drive a 20 year old Mazda MPV at the moment. It does the job just fine of getting me to and fro work and the grocery store. I bought it for $900 after the Toyota Pickup from the same era I bought for $500 gave up the ghost a month ago.
The only way these companies might continue on is if they ramp up production of Tanks and we go on an all out World War of Conquest, funded by Funny Money printed by Ben and Henry until such time as we can Pirate every last still funtioning oil rig and direct the flow of oil back to the USA to keep the factories producing the tanks to burn the fuel to kill the people until sufficient die off has occurred and there no longer is ANY oil left to Pirate for the tanks to burn the fuel to kill the people.
This should make good sense to any economist here on the board.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
Rumor has it that the 3 headed dog Cerebus has secured their end of the merger financing. GM has been told "no" by the feds because the government does not want to be tied to a potenetial 50K job loss in the auto industry. Just a matter of time before this becomes a done deal and someone gives GM the money. Michigan will be sunk if this merger occurs.
On the other hand Nissan is very interested in Chrysler as well. We will see.
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