I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
Jack wrote:
ReverseEngineer wrote:
So what is? Be specific.
Static defense of a fixed point is futile.
Civilians can be neutralized easily. Start with the greatest threat in an opposing group and work down. Afterward, seize and disperse confiscated supplies.
Military units vary in motivation, equipment, and leadership. In most cases, evade. In some cases, neutralize the leadership, then work down. Ambush techniques can be effective.
Maintain mobility. Disperse supplies.
Recruit the strong. The weak are expendable.
This is complete garbage. First off, anywhere you are is where you are, you can only be so mobile. I'm more mobile than most, I live further out than most, but I still could not go so far out as to get away from this one, so you have to pick a point you will defend.
Military units are composed of PEOPLE. If you know people who are IN the military to begin with, they are not your enemies to begin with. they could become your enemies though if they get orders and follow them that are counter to what is right for the population as a whole.
You really have a very skewed understanding of how human nature works. You seem fixated on the negative aspects, and glory in them. I prefer to fixate on the positive aspects, and nurture them. Friendship does remarkable things, people will selflessly give of themselves to help others if you prepare them to do so. Men do this all the time in warfare, we give such men the Congressional Medal of Honor. You do not seem to believe in Honor. You debase the spirit of a man with your thought process. It is despicable. Honor and Courage make a true Warrior. You have none of that in you.
Revferse Engineer
Joined: Mar 23, 2005 Posts: 191 Location: SW Ct SW Va
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
Quote:
"but this one should last for my best case expected life span of another 5 years or so. "
Rev .. If you feel you only have 5 yrs left .. forget the doomer porn .. Get out there and experience a few more moments from your personal 'bucket' list .. Life's too short ..
Triff ..
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 744 Location: northern California
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
ReverseEngineer wrote:
Save as Many as You Can
RE it's amazing how much flak you're taking from all perspectives here. Don't let it get you down, I've got your back. Here's a modification of your stance that suits me:
"Save as Many as You Can Live With"
You know the old story about the father, son & donkey going to market, right? They started out leading the donkey on a rope, until the first traveler they met chastised them for wasting a good resource. So the father rode the donkey for awhile and the son walked beside. Next traveler berated the father for making his son walk while he rode. So they switched. Next traveler berated the worthless son for making his father walk. So of course they both climbed aboard the donkey and caught hell again for animal abuse. They finally made it to market carrying the donkey. Can't please everyone, just do what works best for your situation. _________________ "When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon."
Thomas Paine
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
ReverseEngineer wrote:
First off, anywhere you are is where you are, you can only be so mobile. 'm more mobile than most, I live further out than most, but I still could not go so far out as to get away from this one, so you have to pick a point you will defend.
Pick a point you will defend?
No....not in the initial phase.
ReverseEngineer wrote:
Military units are composed of PEOPLE. If you know people who are IN the military to begin with, they are not your enemies to begin with. they could become your enemies though if they get orders and follow them that are counter to what is right for the population as a whole.
The population as a whole? Ahh, yes...socialism. No thank you.
And Darkness take the population as a whole.
ReverseEngineer wrote:
You really have a very skewed understanding of how human nature works. You seem fixated on the negative aspects, and glory in them. I prefer to fixate on the positive aspects, and nurture them. Friendship does remarkable things, people will selflessly give of themselves to help others if you prepare them to do so. Men do this all the time in warfare, we give such men the Congressional Medal of Honor. You do not seem to believe in Honor. You debase the spirit of a man with your thought process. It is despicable. Honor and Courage make a true Warrior. You have none of that in you.
You're right. I don't believe in honor - although it can be used as a manipulative tool against the naive.
As for debasing the spirit of man, I cannot begin to surpass what man does every day. I merely observe human behavior and allow for it.
And now we come to honor and courage.
I see no reason to fight fair. Just to win.
And if a cowardly sneak attack gets me where I want to be, so be it.
Y'all have a nice day, now, y'hear?
And keep your supplies in good order, please. I might need them.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3869 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
Jack wrote:
I see no reason to fight fair. Just to win.
HHmm.. The Only reason to fight is to win.
Anybody else notice that one can tell which posters going to "make it," and who will not? I''ve noticed that recently many posters are refining and narrowing their focus, with many suddenly becoming "born again." _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3228 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
Ferretlover wrote:
Jack wrote:
I see no reason to fight fair. Just to win.
HHmm.. The Only reason to fight is to win.
Anybody else notice that one can tell which posters going to "make it," and who will not? I''ve noticed that recently many posters are refining and narrowing their focus, with many suddenly becoming "reborn."
In a dangerous world the decision to fight takes on enough consequences that if you should choose it you better fight to win. Otherwise one is better advised to submit or run.
I am reminded of a fable.
A man grew tired of having watermelons stolen from his large watermelon patch so he put out a sign, "Warning: One of these Watermelons is spiked with poison!"
The next morning he awoke feeling smug and walked out to check on his patch, expecting the thief to have been deterred and his watermelons as he left them. He counted and no watermelons were harmed but then he noticed his sign. It now read, "Warning: One Two of these Watermelons is spiked with poison!"
He decided to fight, but not to win. Instead of loosing a few of his melons he lost them all. If you are going to fight, you better fight to win. _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
Last edited by wisconsin_cur on Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
Ferretlover wrote:
Anybody else notice that one can tell which posters going to "make it," and who will not?
I can't tell. How do you tell who is going to make it?
I worry about a lot of folks I see on here utterly freaking out over some bad financial news. I worry about how they will do when times get actually tough...but I don't know if they will or won't make it.... _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4331 Location: Graceland
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
I have discovered that is much easier to figure out a way to do without most things than to figure out a way to provide meaningful security and protection for them.
Let most of your possessions be like the lizard's detachable tail--the mob will imagine it has gained something useful as you slip away with the stuff that's really important, which is very little really.
There is a Chinese proverb that goes something like: "the wise merchant appears penniless."
I think a lot of survival comes down to luck as well. I don't mean to downplay the role of preparation, but there is a point at which one just has to hope for good luck and not get too frustrated when one encounters bad luck.
"The Art of Worldly Wisdom" by Balthasar Gracian is an excellent primer on how to get through life with a minimum of trouble. _________________
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6976 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
Ludi wrote:
Ferretlover wrote:
Anybody else notice that one can tell which posters going to "make it," and who will not?
I can't tell. How do you tell who is going to make it?
I worry about a lot of folks I see on here utterly freaking out over some bad financial news. I worry about how they will do when times get actually tough...but I don't know if they will or won't make it....
Me either.
I hear lots of strutting and chest beating, I only hear a little of experience and doing - yea I said it again.
As far as the whole Doomstead Idea I reject it. If one chooses to live in a bunker with a bunker mentality then that is where they will obviously die; dreading each new moment.
Not my cup of tea. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
dunewalker wrote:
ReverseEngineer wrote:
Save as Many as You Can
RE it's amazing how much flak you're taking from all perspectives here. Don't let it get you down, I've got your back.
Your support is welcome Dune, but don't worry about me. I'm at my best when attacked from all sides I'm quite used to it, been down this road more times than I can count. I am the Terminator in all debates I get into. I keep on coming, I will not stop until you are DEAD.
Getting the kind of response I did here just means I have touched a nerve in people. I write to elicit this kind of response, its what I LIVE for. I'll be pounding the keyboard here soon, just got back from a supply run and bought another car, a minivan large enough to move quite a bit of stuff at once. Bought for Cash, $900. Need to do a wash here and tidy up and organize all the doom supplies.
I will admit its going to take a marathon of writing to cover all the arguments being thrown at me in this and other threads. I need to make a Beer Run also. Fuel for the Muse. LOL.
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 3039 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
BigTex wrote:
There is a Chinese proverb that goes something like: "the wise merchant appears penniless."
Pure Gold Tex..
BigTex wrote:
I think a lot of survival comes down to luck as well. I don't mean to downplay the role of preparation, but there is a point at which one just has to hope for good luck and not get too frustrated when one encounters bad luck.
I'll take it one step further, I have always packaged and personalized "survival" as P-A-R-A. Preparation, Attitude, Relaxation, and Attunement. I borrowed the ARA from an book Called Trailsafe:Averting threatening behavior on the trail by Dr. Michael Bane. Doesn't matter because it's really all common sense.
Personally I think the ones who inherit TEOTWAWKI are not nessesarly the most well armed. No I put my money on the guy who can go a week in the woods without talking to a soul and not go crazy over a well armed suburbanite. I have done it and it's harder than it sounds. In a true collapse I think 90% of us Americans will go crazy without our televison sets. I think most born again warriors will prove to be their own worst enemy.
In the spirit of what Tex pointed out earlier: I simply aspire to carry the aura of wise craking piss poor ranch hand. _________________ Hair in my eyes like a highland steer, spring in my step like a white tailed deer. Hitch in my hip like an old sheep dog, puff up my chest like a big bull frog.-Corb Lund
Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
PrairieMule wrote:
Personally I think the ones who inherit TEOTWAWKI are not nessesarly the most well armed. No I put my money on the guy who can go a week in the woods without talking to a soul and not go crazy over a well armed suburbanite. I have done it and it's harder than it sounds. In a true collapse I think 90% of us Americans will go crazy without our televison sets. I think most born again warriors will prove to be their own worst enemy.
I don't even OWN a television set While I haven't spent much more than a couple of weeks out in the wilderness by myself (and that was when I was in my teens), I spent MONTHS living in my Freightliner at Truckstops all over the country never talking to ANYONE. 48th Ronin notwithstanding, most truckers are IDIOTS. LOL.
I will however miss the Internet. Still, I lived without it for a good portion of the time I was Trucking, probably only hit an internet connected T-stop about 1 out of 3 days while on the road, it was before wireless, I had to drop a phone line out of the truck window to connect up to a little PNV hub in each parking spot.
Still, crossing my fingers and hoping for another couple of years writing on the net After that, I'll just debate with myself if need be. There is always something to think about.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4401 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
wisconsin_cur wrote:
A man grew tired of having watermelons stolen from his large watermelon patch so he put out a sign, "Warning: One of these Watermelons is spiked with poison!"
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4401 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Life in the Doomstead
PrairieMule wrote:
In the spirit of what Tex pointed out earlier: I simply aspire to carry the aura of wise craking piss poor ranch hand.
So you'll be Michael Caine in Children of Men, stepping out of the doomstead and saying to the feds "pull my finger"? That may not turn out well. _________________ As long as I am around, there are no worries we have reached "Peak Words"
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