It is a fraud like ALL faith healings.

If you really want good health then

a) Exercise.
b) Eat good quality food.
c) Avoid stressful situations.

Now that this thread is split, any casual observations can be put here. Gut feel, first impression or personal opinions of Immunics methods or ideologies can now be posted freely on this thread.

After much deliberation, and running what's going on here through the filter of Goal - QPC's Seven Management & Planning Tools which I learned at the course on location in Methuen, MA, I came to the conclusion that this will be good brainstorming material for later theorizing and fail-checking. It needs to be preserved; it needs to be taken into consideration.

There is sufficient empirical evidence that this system produces repeatable and predictable results based on the intentions and framing of the individual using it - what remains is the explanation of how it is achieving these outcomes. From this, psycho-neural processes can be better understood and the Immunics techniques re-engineered to remove potentially obstructive protocol, dogma and cultural trappings.

I am sorry if this post does not help you.I would also like to state that everything that i type in this post is my personal opinion only.

In my personal opinion immunics is a cult plain and simple.
How do i have this opinion ? I almost became a member of the COS when i was a lot younger . Since then i have studied a lot of these cults since i have almost become a victim myshelf and i can tell you that i am 99.999 % certain that immunics is a cult.
Every cult follows a pattern . In my opinion immunics follows such a pattern.


Look at this . Does this give you confidence ?

http://www.immunics.org/00open/definiti ... sawhum.htm

I don't know about this but i can swear to home remedies!!! vitamin B6 for carple tunnel...raw garlic for any type of cold/flu swolen glands etc. (draws the poisen out)...glucosamine-condroiten (?spelling?) for joint pain *NOTE: but you have to read the label with glucosamine, it can affect diabetics and ya can't take it if you're alergic to shellfish!!!...a slice of raw onion on the skin for acne etc., etc., etc., they really do work & all the people must have used SOMETHING before our "modern medicine" came onto the scene.

Greetings Earthlings-

Although I have been following PeakOil with much interest and for some time now, this is truly my very first posting. Will do my best to acquit myself with some usefulness, if not actual dignity.

Regarding the issue of immunics -- I have been very closely investigating this approach to (among other things that it is, and is not) wellness; even directly experimenting with many of the recommended exercises. If anyone wishes to ask sincere questions about how this experience has thus far gone for me, I am happy to answer as best I can.

I have certainly enjoyed many of the lessons with which one can engage at the website (see reference in earlier post), while heavily adapting the material overall to factor for how I practice non-theistically. These folks are most definitely theists; fine for them, most certainly unnecessary and undesirable for me. No matter; I have for the most part been able to work through or around whatever differences of practice and philosophy I have encountered.

There is still quite a wealth of useful material available at that website. Yes, there's a strongly (but politely) recommended donation requested. not demanded; one may proceed without donating, for access into the whole, _huge_ site.

But -- why do I bother with this at all? Because I recognise (my particular opinion only, of course) that there is great value in being able to gain more direct access to one's own, inherent immune abilities. There seems besides considerable evidence in the study of psychoneuroimmunology to support the investigation of more conscious interraction with one's immune system. I have experienced enough illness and impairment over the years to realize that true and sustainable wellness resides in far more than ingesting various medicines, supplements and foods. We are all aware here, I believe, that any likely comer r.e. inexpensive, readily available, easily learned and effective health practice is a boon now, and could be invaluable in near future. Therefore I do not dismiss immunics, or several of other generally like modalities (such as E.F.T.) out of hand. And therefore I intend to continue as I am able to directly investigate these possible alternatives (or at least possibly useful adjuncts) to terrifically costly (and in future, possibly unavailable) and more familiar, conventional medical modalities. We will see what's possible.


- Mme. TooToo

Clue - No description I can find without "signing up"

Bad sign



Apparently, it boils down to the above quote. And all that other stuff, videos, Yahoo groups, icollage etc... is meant to convince folks.

I have developed a similar system... It's called giveaaronsomemoneyism.

It's guaranteed to solve all kinds of problems... well my problems anyway.

For the sake of continuity following the split, "immunics" Report III, garnered this reply:
----- ----- -----

We have a similar circumstance in technology.

The smarter you are, the more dangerous you are to your technology.

Smart people tend to see everything in terms of how smart they are. I get more business from lawyers, doctors & other professionals, than any other groups. It's because these folks tend to make spurious conclusions about their own ability, even in subjects they know little about. Seems they "project" their expertise in a specific field, onto everything else... with hilarious results!

William of Occam has a message for you:

"You need a shave."



A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Have you folks considered that if a single person pursues this "treatment" instead of traditional medicine, and suffers or dies because this is a bunch of crap, that support for this, or even mentioning it, is immoral?

I'm all for a few less gullible people roaming around, but do you really want your fingerprints on that train wreck?

If you suspect something is true, but can't quantify or repeat the experience it means one of two things:

1) It's Bullshit

or

2) It's so poorly understood, it might as well be bullshit.

Do you know what they call an idea, that does not have a single shred of supporting scientific evidence?

I think you do...

Good Morning to All, and all that-

Aaron, I'd like to engage with your recentest comments.

First, I appreciate your entire "Occam's Razor" discourse.

And I agree; little knowledge (I would add, stupidly and carelessly applied) is a terribly dangerous thing.

A plaque reading, "The smarter you are, the more dangerous you are to your technology." ought to be hanging prominently over every highly educated professional's desk.

But...come to think of it, Plato distrusted the technology (technology embedded in the mind) of literacy, and here we are communicating via writing... Hmmm...


I have a dear friend who is _not_ an intellectual (i.e., possessing degrees, etc.), upon whose very high "horse sense" intelligence I often call to help me through complex issues. I have nicknamed her "Alexendra the Great", because, when presented with a seemingly untangle-able, unsolvable, knotty problem -- she almost invariably simply cuts right through the whole mess instantly with one or two clear and actionable comments.

Would we all were so capable. Good thing any of us have friendly (or billable hours-type ?) access to those who can be sensible as well as "smart".

As for the "immuners" (to whom I believe you refer, as in "this treatment"):

First, their website is FULL of clearly stated advice to those under a doctor's care (or sick enough to warrant that) for serious illness to "stick with your doctor", and, "win with your medicines (and/or treatments)", and "don't throw your meds down the toilet", and pointedly, "your doctor will tell you when you're cured...your doctor will discharge you when you're cured".

While I am not, for excellent and sane reasons, one to unqualifiedly trust any medical personnel (mainstream doc or otherwise) regarding issues of my health, I do see the "immuners'" policy as generally wise and necessary. They certainly are careful not to leave themselves open to charges of careless or immoral advisement to the ill -- or to lawsuits.

I would add that it seems very likely to me that actual concern and compassion plays a part in their conscientious disclaimerism, too. They do not at all strike me as the kind who wish to risk anyone's suffering unduly or dying on account of careless medical misadvisement.

And regarding "alternative" strategies for keeping or regaining good health, in general, a representative example:

I am a minor herbalist, meaning that I know a relatively few herbs quite well. Every one of the herbs with which I work has been employed for enhancement of human health for many hundreds, even thousands, of years. None of them is patented (thank the gods) by a major drug company, nor prescribed by died-in-the-wool mainstream docs.

I can with confidence report anecdotally that any given herbal remedy appears to work perfectly sometimes, well often, somewhat well sometimes, and sometimes seems to fail altogether. They are often (not always) helpful, generally safe, and SO accessible.

Therefore, I "suspect" that these remedies are valid, even though I cannot "qualify or repeat the experience" dependably in every instance. I might add that the total action of several of these herbs (as of this writing) is rather "poorly understood".

And -- I have no qualms about continuing to use them for myself and my family, or to suggest them to others who seek my "herb lady" advice. (NOTE: I am, even with an informal note on scratch paper, _always_ extremely careful to make explicit disclaimer, for the safety and benefit of the other person, and frankly, to C.M.A.)

I understand that some of these herbs have been studied in labs; many haven't, or have not been the subject of any very in-depth inquiry. There's no foreseeable profit in items any ordinary person can find growing wild out in the fields, or grow cheaply and easily in the home garden, so why even bother to study it?

Therefore, these herbal remedies do not (yet, if ever) possess "a single shred of supporting scientific evidence."

Shall I foreswear their use, or in fear of failure, cease to suggest anyone else give them a try? Nope. Do you know what I call that?

I think you do...

WISE.


Any misrepresentations are entirely the responsibility of this author, who continues to always recommend that in this, as in all circumstances -- use your own perceptions, make your own observations and make up your own mind for yourself!


To your health,

Mme TooToo


p.s. Note that I haven't even gotten _started_ on the mounds and mounds of incontrovertible evidence against the safety or even efficacy of many, many (no of course, not all; some are perfectly valid) mainstream-approved, promoted, exceedingly profitable and avidly hawked nostrums and treatments. But that would be like shooting fish in a barrel...

I don't mean to disparage anyone's personal experience of these things, since our experience of stuff is all that really counts... to us.

But hearsay of individual experience is not any sort of proof don't we think?

I agree that there is much left to discover about our amazing universe, and I also agree that much of traditional medicine is bunk. But I also apply Occam's Razor to everything.

In this instance, what's more likely?

1) Some misunderstood power can magically heal the sick.

or

2) The power of suggestion causes you to imagine some healing?

I'm sure I don't have to elaborate.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Look, if you can heal people by laying your hands on them, my old girlfriend from high school is probably immortal.

If you believe you can go places & do things by thinking it, then technically I have had relations with every attractive woman I have ever met in vast, colorful orgies.

Crystals, and humming, and yoga, and tantric sex, and hypnotherapy, chiropractic, and chelation, and immunics have one thing in common.

NO CLINICAL DATA

I'm all for exploring new methods of healing, and I suspect we ain't seen nothing yet. But without some clinical data, I'm afraid that the more powerfully you present the case, the more I suspect it's nothing more than my own natural active imagination can achieve.

What would you say to me, if I told you I could fly, because I felt that I had?

RE: Franciscan monk William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349), the following is highly recommended reading: Occam's Razor

The tome Robert Todd Carroll writes closely aligns with and reiterates what I was taught in Theoretics and Engineering Practicum. The reader will understand that the now popularized "Razor" doesn't find the universal applicability often imbued it by skeptics of nearly every stripe. Care must be taken, for example, in discerning the subtle difference between "reason" and "revelation" in finding use for principles of parsimony.

Similarly, it is recommended that a cursory 'going over' of Immanuel Kant's works be undertaken to establish firmly in one's mind the nature of universal/absolute vs relative aspects in order to extend further the intent of William's treatises in Ontology.

The Detailed Observations thread is here:
http://www.peakoil.com/post79255.html#79255