The Ultimate Post Peak Habitat

Triplegemini · Guest

Regarding securing water in the building scenario. That's the biggest barrier I have to this idea. Here in San Diego we very little precipitation. There is a company called liquid air that has designed a device that extracts about 4 gallons of water a day from the air. This close to the coastline we get a thick marine layer in the evenings. So if they develop a solar powered model, sign me up! Water would not be a problem in the short term. But to sustain people in the long run, I don’t want to be putting all my ducks in one basket... (i.e., a machine)

I've been watching water desalinizes on eBay. Emergency preparedness for boat owners. Several of those might be a good idea, but again, that's a daily trip to the beach, which is not a good idea if things really do go bad. Especially when your riding your bycicle down the freeway pulling several gallons of water in your cart. (Hey, we get to do that you know, how cool!)

There is a small river about 1/2 mile away from this particular building, but again, that means leaving the building. Plus, I think some community upstream will probably dam the river and the water will stop flowing at this end real fast.

Water.....that's the question of the day! At least here in So. Ca.

That beings said though, I'm still going with taking over a building. Kinda like in 28 days, yes. That move gave me the idea on how to block up the stairwells. He used grocery carts, I would use filing cabinets (already exist in the building on the upper floors). You can boobie trap the stairwells by placing 'rollables' on each stairwell landing, so that if someone does get in, you can send down the rollables to trip them up, giving you time to get out of the stairwell.

Sounds very much like that move in a way. Surviving in a building. But I believe for people like myself (city dwellers with no resources) I think it's a marvelous idea! Can you tell though, that I think about this too much?
Trip ~~~~~> is a girl Laughing

azreal60 · Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:01 am Post subject:

Trip,
Your solution of an office building Would be useful if and only if the fast crash senario plays out. As in, what are you going to do about the office buildings owners? :D They might object to your plans for their building.

I also don t mean to bring u down, but the majority of office buildings are kinda reliant on the grid in every meaning of the word. I m sure you could get enough solar to power one, but where would you put your waste products? One of the advantages of a farm is its in a natural setting, and you have all the benifit s there of. A office building wouldn t have enough area to grow crops for full time food production (unless your a Very good farmer and its a pretty flat spread out office building)

I guess my point is that you Could do it, but there are alot better things to do even for city dwellers with little to no resources. Honestly, if your going from a fast crash senario, I would say warehouse. They are flatter surfaces so the roof top farming senario looks better, large interior and usually alot of surrounding area to have things outside.

While I believe we are looking at some kind of crash, I don t think that with hard work to adjust to the kind of lifestyle we will need we can t avoid it.

Me personally, I definatly am going intentional community rural style. There is a shitpot load of land out there that is available for pretty cheap if you really save hard for a few years. Or you could look for an intentional community looking for new members.

Me personally, if your looking to join mine, i am looking at eventually having small town size, like 5k in people. I would buy land in the middle of Wisconsin, south of madison looks to be where i am going to do so. It would have bike path access to madison, hwy access for emergencys. There are a few small towns that i think eventually would join up with us if their way of life was collapsing.

I would start out with 20 or so people. We would find land and collectively buy it. We would build a few small utility out buildings for practice, and then build a large community center. This would be our temporary shelter for building the rest of our homes.

The key to this approach is this isn t just a bunch of city dwellers bringing sprawl to the outskirts of a major city. We would require that our development is completely sustainable with no outside input s what so ever. Honestly, you don t need HUGE area s of land to be able to sustain yourself, and collective use of alot of major needs really helps. Not to mention having a plan.

I have a few books you might want to check out, the one i like the best for simply making me believe i can actually do it is Mortgage free! Radical strategies for home ownership. The author is rob roy. See if you can get it out of a library or heck go buy a copy, its worth it. This guy basically outlines how anyone pretty much can go about getting their own little homestead s with no debt.

Oh, and as for what my home will be like. Cylinder construction. In the middle will be a very large masonary stove. This will be the back up heating method, and honestly won t be used nearly as much as the solar radiant heating on the roof. The house will be powered with a mix of wind and solar with large battery back ups. I would love to eventually be able to just store it in hydrogen fuel cells, we will see how that tech developes. There will be a large garden in the back, and i am not sure yet if i want greenhouse space or not. I believe a community green house is a definate need even if i don t have one personally.

The keys to this approach is that everything is done in harmony with the land. There is a huge difference between a house that was literally designed for the area and a house just plopped there because the owner bought a kit. For instance, what do you all think. Should I use the shingles that are now available that produce PV power? The other option is a sod roof. It s literally almost indestructible, as the two things that normally break down roofs are the sun and winter. This approach makes it look very pretty, and is the least maintence. The best part about this is the roof can be flat. You actually Want snow on it, its free insulation. And proper drainage means exess water flows off and your sod stays nice and moist.

The house will be built either with post and beam or cordword masonary construction. I haven t figured out yet which will work best with our native materials.

I am completely serious about forming this, I believe it can be done and that there are enough like minded people in the area that i could pull it off. The tricks are finding the land, figuring out how to organize ourselves, and making sure we have the knowledge base we need.

I personally when thinking of the fast crash always wanted to live in the huge barns and noble near my appartment. It s not sustainable in any manner, but with the knowledge in those books, you literally would have all the power in the area. Stop it from being torched and become the person who tells people how to plumb, or build a house, or garden, or anything practically. That however was always a fantasy idea ( what can i say, i love being around huge stack s of books) I personally plan to work like hell to make sure that the fast crash never happens, but rather we simply learn to live better. I believe that with enough planning by people who understand the situation ahead of time, there will be methods available to transfer us to. The trick is there has to be that planning ahead of time. Not to mention the avoidance of wasting of the resources we truely need. Like if someone sticks a coal power plant down the road that covers my home in smog kills off all the live stock and plants, well, i would be pretty screwed. Thats why i don t want a total break down of the governing systems we have, simply a few changes.

Anyway, gotta go earn my grubstake for my new intentional community, time to go slave away, tell me what you think, and feel free and send me pm s if you wish to find out further details of what i am looking into.

Guest

Hi Trip-

I haven't seen 28 days yet. God I haven't seen much in awhile(no vcr,dvd, or tv).

As for water and the danger of a trip to the river or beach . . . perhaps you could go less often but get more each time?

And have some way to store it. There will prolly be hot water heaters in the building that will hold 20-50 gal. or more.

Since the water prolly won't be shut off immediately, you could, at least at first, fill up everything that will hold water in the building(secondary problem is sanitizing but that's not all that complicated-tablets, filters, bleach and boiling all can work)

Then again even a monthly trip to the water source could be a pretty scary prospect

Overheard Conversation from the Future;

"Hey man, don't go down that street. That's where that that crazy Peak Oil chick took over the insurance office building-watch out-she'll throw a monitor or frekin Rolodex and yur head!"

Laughing

Leanan · News Editor Joined: May 20, 2004 Posts: 4529

Sorry for getting your gender wrong, Trip. Hard to tell online. Smile

An office building wouldn't be ideal for long-term use. More a fast-crash hideout or transitional fortress. If things go downhill relatively slowly, large buildings in the city may be very cheap, or abandoned, while rural farmland is expensive, or fought over by people with guns. For people who couldn't afford to buy a ranch of their own, or couldn't hold it against the marauding masses, the office building might be the best alternative. Kind of like Masada in miniature. After things calm down, you could come out.

Cool Hand Linc · Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject: earth ship

I still lean towards an earth ship based idea. with changes of course. The walls made of tires are somewhat tough and could be shot several times without colapse. They also will protect the inside from freezing cold or high temperatures. It would not be required to heat but this would be nice.

a variation of design is to pour concreat ceilings. This allows dirt to be laid on top to make it more a hidy hole. Very possibly not needed but part of it can be constructed in such a fashion. Somewhat like a cave.

I would prefer a more civilized approach. (front) a hidy hole can be placed at a small distance from the main house.
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Peace out!

Cool Hand Linc Cool

Leanan · News Editor Joined: May 20, 2004 Posts: 4529

So, where are you planning to build your earthship? I seem to recall hearing that this kind of earth-insulated house works best in desert areas, where nights are cold and days are hot.

Cool Hand Linc · Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:17 am Post subject: Oklahoma

Here in Oklahoma. I think this system will work well here.
_________________
Peace out!

Cool Hand Linc Cool

TripleGemini · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:13 am Post subject:

Leanan,

Yes, the building scenario would be short term. I would have to be. I don't know....three / four years tops. It's an idea to survive a worst case scenario fast crash I think. Personally, I think (unless the supplies are disruped by terror) that a very slow crash is likely. A long slow death of civilization as we know it. Like the way cancer is killing my mom. Slowly and painfully. It's like watching a lively person be turned back into a baby before they go. The die off if it happens, on a much grander scale of course. I certianly think it's likely. We can't sustain society w/o oil.

Hence...the building. It will get us off the ground (which I think will be important) and out of sight (more or less). The building will stink though. Whew! Sewer gasses something fierce once the water stops flowing. The sewer pipes will have to be capped off pretty quick, or the entire group is going to be living on the roof.

Wish I had a crystal ball that could see into the future! Predictive astrology predicts massive disruptions to American civilization in 2012. I think the Mayan calendar ends in 2012 or 2024, is that right?? Anybody applying the practices of predictive arts to peak oil?

Trip

Aaron · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:30 am Post subject:

KiddieKorral · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:32 am Post subject:

born2respawn · Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:48 am Post subject:

I reckon a reasonably well prepaired office building could be a lot more successfull than some people are saying: Using growbags you could grow smaller plants in doors on the south-facing parts of the building - it would require more preperation and man power to get it all in to place but it would extend the time before you have to leave.

It'd also be a lot easier to defend than a farm, keep lookout and you could start engaging attackers from a substantial distance.

Even then it'd be hard to last to a year without bringing in fresh resources, but by then (going with a fast crash scenario) a lot of the crap would have calmed down.

TripleGemini · Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:09 pm Post subject:

Yes, indeed, I think an office building is the way to go! The more I think about it, the better the idea sounds. It's just finding people nutty enough to go along with the plan. If things go to hell in a handbasket, I don't think that will be a problem. If this is all non-sense and there is no crash, well, then I am no worse off than I was. I got rid of a lot of crap on eBay and I am the proud owner of the worlds biggest earthquake kit :D
Trip

k_semler · Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:36 am Post subject:

coyote-2012 · Coal Joined: Jul 17, 2004 Posts: 11 Location: Los Angeles

Dec. 21, 2012 marks the end of a 26,000-year cycle in the Mayan calendar which is directly intertwined with the precession (the tilt cycle) of the earth. More specifically, we're at the end of the fifth world age (each age is about 5125 years long) within that cycle. It is very signifigant once you understand the fact that we are nothing more than earthly creatures who are bound by the natural forces of the cosmos. Hell, just consider the fact that women's menstrual cycle is exactly the same as that of the moon's.

Fact: We are affected by the cosmos and all that lies in it. What happens out there has a direct affect on us here, including our consciousness. It's all about quantum physics. Check out http://www.whatthebleep.com/

The Mayans see every world age as starting with something monumental to the evolution of human consciousness. Thus, every world age is leading up to the next one... that monumental moment whose effects will be seen in the next world age. Consider that the world age we are in right now began roughly when the first major human civilizations were founded. In this world age, it could be generalized that the human species was working on getting along in larger more diverse and specialized communities, i.e. cities.

It could be said that we have royally f'ed up and we're all gonna die. Or, it could be said that we have relied too heavily on non-renewables and need to start over and build towards a truly just and sustainable society, one that leads us to our immediate long-term goal for humanity: to further explore the vast stretches of our galaxy in peace and prosperity, perhaps finally making contact with other sentient beings and taking further evolutionary steps towards... whatever. This is what the Mayan End Date means. It asks "What do we do from this crucial cosmic node in our evolution?"

Now, with the living-in-a-building thing, I guess that'll work, but only if there's a complete clearing out of a city and you haven't already established yourself in a sustainable community for living. I doubt that any city, where large buildings generally are, will be a place where anyone is gonna wanna be once we hit peak oil. The city will be a death trap...

...like Dawn of the Dead. Imagine what humans could be capable of once they get really hungry and there's no food to buy or, perhaps, the concept of money (let's pray for it!). When I saw Dawn of the Dead, the new version, which, by the way, is top-of-the-line apocalyptic horror, I walked out of the theatre imagining the reality of huge raging mobs of humans who are so damn hungry that they'll eat anything they come across, including human straglers.