I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
PO Time cross--I think it's always wise to ignore people who advise you who to ignore. You should be able to make up your own mind. Also be wary of people suggesting you not use certain terms, as "it makes us look bad". They're under the delusional impression that they own the Peak Oil theory and they're planning to take it public. Ooooh....I wonder what the Securities and Exchange Comission will think. Ooooh.
Just go along with them or they might get violent, no angry, no...that's not right either. That's too extreme. They might get--slightly annoyed.
Joined: Apr 11, 2005 Posts: 72 Location: Sin City, NV
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:48 am Post subject:
Leaf, threadbear, thanks for the warm welcome.
I just ordered "The Party's Over." It seems to be a good book.
I have been, and will continue to gather facts, statements, numbers, and other data to build a solid knowledge of PO for myself. As bad as it can be, it is a very interesting topic.
I've also read some of the many "conspiracy theories" associated with PO. None of them I believe at this time. Its the facts that I have come across that have really made an impact on me. Thank God for the ASPO. _________________ " Previous energy transitions were gradual and evolutionary. Oil peaking will be abrupt and revolutionary"
Joined: Jan 16, 2005 Posts: 321 Location: Delft, Netherlands
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:23 am Post subject:
threadbear wrote:
PO Time cross--I think it's always wise to ignore people who advise you who to ignore. You should be able to make up your own mind.
Absolutely. And while you're at it, train yourself to make up the minds of the sheep around you too, if you want them and yourself to survive this thing.
I used to joke about lemmings. Know what a lemming is? It's a mouselike critter that forms huge groups once in a while to commit mass suicide by drowning. I've seen it myself: a Norwegian fjord beach covered in little corpses. It's their way to control population.
Think of people like lemmings now. But you are a lemming who doesn't like the idea of finding itself in the water in a few years, but how to convince the others around you? They'll tell you: but we've always done this, and it was never a problem!
I used to joke about lemmings. Know what a lemming is? It's a mouselike critter that forms huge groups once in a while to commit mass suicide by drowning. I've seen it myself: a Norwegian fjord beach covered in little corpses. It's their way to control population.
Given that lemming suicide is an urban legend created by Walt Disney to make a nature film more dramatic, what you saw was probably just an accident.
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Holy Mother of God
PO_TimeCr0ss wrote:
.
Wow, just wow. Its difficult to live your everyday, normal life when you know such powerful things such as PO. I just feel like my eyes have been opened.
heh, thanks for the post...
I went through my peak oil awakening in the last few weeks as well...
A similar story to yours.
I've long studied and read about ecological issues. I have read books such as Catton's "Overshoot." Mumford's "The myth of the machine." and knew that our industrial society would at some point bump up against the limits to growth. I just didn't know when and exactly how that would unfold, so I kind of tucked that in my back pocket and carried on with my life.
Damn! it's something when you can see it all laid out in a bell curve, and then you go on to read that world production has been flat since 1998 (deffeyes).
My unfolding went like this:
heard matt shavinar once or twice on coast to coast am. thought it was an interesting subject, even emailed a friend about it (still no connect, life carries on)
two weeks ago I watched "the end of suburbia". I was fascinated and glued to to the television. This led to an intensive web search. When I research a topic on the web I become pretty fanatical about it. The more I dug the more my "low level panic" developed.
I spent a fair amount of time as well searching for information to debunk PO. All I found was the familiar "zionist conspiracy"...the "abiotic" BS...and one article called the "myth of peak oil" which basically went on to say that peak oil is something we should be concerned about.
This all occured within the context of a daily barrage of headlines like "gas prices are up and they ain't coming down"..."Goldman Sachs says oil at $105"..."Bank of Montreal says worlds two largest oil fields have peaked"..."IEA warns of acute oil shortage"..."IMF says rocky road ahead for world economy"
To make a long story longer...I'm now in the "adjust my life to peak oil awareness" phase. I feel like I got caught with my pants down. I wish I would have known about this earlier. Oh well, glad I know now (I think I'm glad I know, two weeks ago my main concern was deciding all the places I wanted to go flyfishing this summer).
most duteously,
seldom
PS: has anyone seen Road Warrior lately? The begining of that movie is just plain freaky, or prophetic or however you want to look at it. My buddy and I just about sh*t our pants when we saw it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2005 Posts: 321 Location: Delft, Netherlands
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:22 am Post subject:
Grimnir wrote:
Given that lemming suicide is an urban legend created by Walt Disney to make a nature film more dramatic, what you saw was probably just an accident.
I estimate there were about 100 corpses on that beach. I agree they were probably just trying to cross the fjord or something, but it was an eerie sight. The strange thing was most of the corpses were skinless/furless!
Joined: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 257 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:44 am Post subject:
Quote:
PS: has anyone seen Road Warrior lately? The begining of that movie is just plain freaky, or prophetic or however you want to look at it. My buddy and I just about sh*t our pants when we saw it.
Don't forget that some have been aware of this issue for quite awhile... even back when Mel was lad. Check out permaculture for instance...
...BTW also check out Koyaanisqasti, if you haven't seen it you're in for a treat. If you have, be prepared for the same Road Warrior (AKA MadMaxII in it's natural habitat) effect. _________________ Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. - Aldous Huxley
Right. I am fully aware of the timescale invloved, and that's an excellent point to bring up. Although I feel that the effects of PO will begin to take hold in my lifetime (I'm 24), it is the thought of what my future children will have to endure in the post-peak world that amplifies my fears.
EDIT: Thanks for the warm welcome.
You have children already at 24? After learning about overshoot (peak oil is really just a symptom of much bigger problems) I don't think I would ever choose to have children. The best site on this subject is www.dieoff.org it's very sobering.
I mean with the war in Iraq going so well, peace breaking out all over the Middle East and Africa, international cooperation at an all time high, the US economy on stable footing, freedom spreading throughout China and Russia, competent leadership at the healm of the world's superpower, who would have thought that something really bad was brewing in the background?
PO Time cross--I think it's always wise to ignore people who advise you who to ignore. You should be able to make up your own mind.
Absolutely. And while you're at it, train yourself to make up the minds of the sheep around you too, if you want them and yourself to survive this thing.
I used to joke about lemmings. Know what a lemming is? It's a mouselike critter that forms huge groups once in a while to commit mass suicide by drowning. I've seen it myself: a Norwegian fjord beach covered in little corpses. It's their way to control population.
Think of people like lemmings now. But you are a lemming who doesn't like the idea of finding itself in the water in a few years, but how to convince the others around you? They'll tell you: but we've always done this, and it was never a problem!
Hee hee. What a presumptions and self-important post. Of course you are smarter and more evolved than the "sheep" and "lemmings" all around you. Give me a break!
Sooner or later when you delve into this thing you come to the realization that you're not really special and you're just as doomed as everyone else.
PO Time cross--I think it's always wise to ignore people who advise you who to ignore. You should be able to make up your own mind. Also be wary of people suggesting you not use certain terms, as "it makes us look bad". They're under the delusional impression that they own the Peak Oil theory and they're planning to take it public. Ooooh....I wonder what the Securities and Exchange Comission will think. Ooooh.
Just go along with them or they might get violent, no angry, no...that's not right either. That's too extreme. They might get--slightly annoyed.
Yeah like religious nuts calling for the life of Terri Schivo and outlawing Abortion. Think of how much you are willing to listen to their arguments. That's the same reaction that the general public will have when they hear about "Peak Oil" tied up with a zany nutball conspiracy wack-job like Ruppert.
Joined: Jan 16, 2005 Posts: 321 Location: Delft, Netherlands
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:36 am Post subject:
PhilBiker wrote:
Hee hee. What a presumptions and self-important post. Of course you are smarter and more evolved than the "sheep" and "lemmings" all around you. Give me a break!
Sooner or later when you delve into this thing you come to the realization that you're not really special and you're just as doomed as everyone else.
Yes, I know I'm most probably doomed, but I'll go kicking and screaming all the way! Until everybody is correctly sh*tting bricks like me and planning his a$$ off too, I feel I'm allowed to feel just a LITTLE BIT superior, no?
I just ordered "The Party's Over." It seems to be a good book.
Remember when you read that book that Heinberg is: (1) a conspiracy theorist who buys into Ruppert's far-fetched wacked out zany loony theories. (which makes me think - then what's behind all the "facts" he presents in his book?) (2) a back-to-nature ecologist who basically believes that all industry is evil and we should be living like hunter-gatherers. From the content of that book I believe that he has never done anything more than cursory evaluations as to the potential of Uranium/nuclear energy. His statements are broad and undefined. The last chapter is like an ultra-left-wing wacked out wish list for Heinberg's utopian master society.
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Yes, I know I'm most probably doomed, but I'll go kicking and screaming all the way! Until everybody is correctly sh*tting bricks like me and planning his a$$ off too, I feel I'm allowed to feel just a LITTLE BIT superior, no?
