[Transportation] Trains (was - The Future of Railroads)

Backtosteam · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 15, 2005 Posts: 60

{Note, this thread gets a little sidetracked - pardon the pun, on this page, but then gets pretty interesting from page 2 on. Pops}
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As a railfan, I'm biased of course, but I see rail making a big comeback if energy prices continue to rise. Or at the very least, they will move a higher and higher percentage of the overall goods in the World. If we need to move backwards and run steam they can do it --- run whatever fuel you want, wood, coal, biodiesel etc. If we need additional infrastructure they can built it...you need labor, steel and wood for ties. Not sure there will be a near term shortage of any of those materials. Our freight railroads are in decent shape at this point...good enough to get the basic things moved. The railroads did it before 22 million BPD...they can do it again without 22 million BPD. So I'm curious what everyone thinks...have at it.

Triffin · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:04 am Post subject:

I'm in agreement on the RRs ..
Prolly a good long term investment ..
Plus real estate with rail access ..
Those looking to re-locate might consider
access to rail as one criteria in their search
for the right place to live etc etc
Pairs trade to consider ..

Long trains
Short trucks

Triff ..

SidneyTawl · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 24, 2005 Posts: 322

Or perhaps look for places that have a good chance of "river traffic"

ol, man river, he don't know nuttin, he just keep rollllinnnn onnnnn,

Wildwell · Fission Joined: Feb 03, 2005 Posts: 2080 Location: UK

Out of all the forms of Transport RRs have the best future medium/long term along with shipping and airlines are sadly going to have to fight the motorist for the remaining oil until alternatives comes along (if they come along in the same way). There'll always be cars, but personally I think less of them.

In most European countries we are generating enough power in renewable now to keep the trains moving. I dunno, maybe steam will re-appear again in some places, albeit with efficiency modifications, it's not beyond the wit and wisdom to do that. Steam never went through the efficiency developments later forms of traction did.

I was having a conversation a few days back with someone that works for the RRs here. I had an idea where you could fit motors that would run in reverse (in effect generators) in addition to traction motors as you went along and feed the power back into the system as you went along, like a hyrid car. They already do this with braking now. Anyway, I'm not an engineer and I don't know how feasible it is, my understanding was you would get some sort of traction back EMF effect interfering with track circuits and switch motors. But there might be a way to do it and make them even more efficient.

fastbike · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject:

Wildwell · Fission Joined: Feb 03, 2005 Posts: 2080 Location: UK

fastbike · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject:

NevadaGhosts · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 752

I wonder how a bankrupt US governent will pay for a new large, expensive railroad infrastructure...

27010 · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 14, 2004 Posts: 53

On diesel electric locomotives back emf is a potential problem as if a process called field diversion was not employed it would be possible for the traction motors, at speed, to generate back emf and exceed the voltage from the generator. If this was allowed to occur, power would be lost and high speeds would not be possible. The only "system" that could be fed back into would be the batteries and as these are charged from an auxilliary generator that also supplies power for compressors etc the back emf is of no use. Later locomotives have altenators which can deal with back emf in an easier manner, and there is no benefit to be derived from it.

In electric traction using overhead supplies I do not know if back emf from motors during coasting could be harnessed. As most traction motors in UK are DC current,even on very modern locomotives, I would very much doubt it.

0mar · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject:

MonteQuest · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject:

Backtosteam · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 15, 2005 Posts: 60

small_steps · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: emf

formandfile · Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:28 am Post subject:

TaxiDriver · Coal Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 5

Interesting topic... I was thinking this last week as I took my first-ever train ride to visit my sister. The most enjoyable trip I've taken, as far as the traveling itself goes, plus there were some cool people on the train as well. (On the trip back I spent quite a bit of time discussing Plato in the dining car with a college lass. Try doing THAT on Greyhound.)

The railroads aren't "perfect", but as a means of mass frieght and personal travel, it is an excellent alternative to on-road vehicles. They are expandable both in an infrastructure as well as capacity aspects, and have been a proven winner for quite a few years now (like 200-300 or so but who's counting?)