I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Attic tank graywater design does require pumps. The system I'm building is the "apartment version" where the tanks are on the main floor and visible. That still requires pumps. In any case, a hand pump such as a diaphram-type bilge pump, will get the water up to the attic nicely.
For your washing machine's graywater output: have a surge tub or tank into which the washer can discharge water normally. Then pump the water from that tank up to the attic tank or whatever.
It appears that the diaphram pumps are the best hand-powered pumps in terms of gallons per minute. However they would have to be permanently mounted to a surface, e.g. a wall (into the studs with heavy screws).
Note also, you need a separate pump for each grade of water you're handling. Can't count on sterilizing one pump while switching it back and forth between uses (e.g. clean water to tank A, graywater to tank B, etc.).
---
The big water-consumer for laundry is rinsing. Getting all the detergent out. The key to reducing rinse water consumption is to be able to judge the minimum amount of detergent you need to get a load clean. A good long soak will help, and will also reduce the amount of time you need to run the agitator (additional incremental energy savings).
---
Cisterns are iffy at best in Northern California; we get all of our precipitation in the winter, so we'd have to store a year's worth of water, which could be impractical (or I might be wrong; I should sit down and do the arithmetic). However the public water supplies here are pretty sound and I don't expect serious trouble in that department (or, if there is, it's time to evacuate before the epidemics set in...)
I bought two more 1550 gal tanks last weekend. That should take care of the overflow I've experienced with only 4,550 gallons of storage.
The 2005 cost is now $499 per 1500 gal tank + shipping, and that has increased as well.
Now all I need is more rain! April has been drier than normal so far. Dang climate change!
I'm down to 2000 gallons, about 1 month's supply...
I'm glad I haven't quit the city water service yet.
And yes, I do use a solar water still. I add some homegrown lemon or lime juice to add organics to the then-no-longer-distilled rainwater. I know what's in there...
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: rainwater just for garden
Anybody using rainwater collection just for your garden? I'm afraid I didn't run my calculations very well but I have about 900 gallons worth of tanks collecting rainwater from my roof. Figured I would just have it to reduce our use of aquifer water/pressure on the enviroment, keep watering the eventually large garden and mini-orchard in case of drought restrictions, and have as backup in case of massive upheaval/ water interruptions. The tanks are not currently hooked into our water supply.
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 39 Location: Oil Patch
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject:
In Colorado the owner of the water rights can force the owner of the cistern to remove his rooftop collection system. Im sure this is not enforced that much but it is interesting that somewhere, sometime a lawyer dreamed this one up.
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: Re: rainwater just for garden
ish wrote:
Anybody using rainwater collection just for your garden? I'm afraid I didn't run my calculations very well but I have about 900 gallons worth of tanks collecting rainwater from my roof. Figured I would just have it to reduce our use of aquifer water/pressure on the enviroment, keep watering the eventually large garden and mini-orchard in case of drought restrictions, and have as backup in case of massive upheaval/ water interruptions. The tanks are not currently hooked into our water supply.
Anyone else using similar system want to comment?
When I first started collecting rainwater about 2 years ago, my original intended use was for the garden and fruit/nut trees only. I started with 4,550 gallons of capacity which covered the irrigation usage just fine. But then during the non-growing season, the tanks filled up and were just sitting there. So to make better use of the investment, plumbing the rainwater to the house was the next step. But that required more investment as I detailed above in another post.
At the present time, however, my rainwater has run out. I knew that I didn't have enough capacity to last through a dry year or drought, and that's why I bought more capacity. I'll be ready the next time around. Central Texas currently has about a 3.75 inch rain deficit so far this year. That corresponds to about 3,750 gallons of water. (And that's why my tanks are empty.)
I'm back to using city water until it rains again.
Here are some facts and estimates about collecting rainwater which are available at www.rainwatercollection.com FAQ:
<<Excerpt>>
How much can I collect?
A one-inch rain on 1000 square feet of collection surface will yield about 550 real world gallons of rainwater.
How much collection surface (roof) do I need?
Figure on at least 1500 square feet minimum for two people here in the Hill Country with our average rainfall of 32 inches a year.
How much do I need to store?
Allow about 5000 gallons storage capacity for every family member. This will get you through the worst of droughts.
How much does it cost?
A very, very ballpark figure is $10,000 for a 10,000-gallon whole-house system including storage tank, prefiltration, pump, secondary filtration and disinfection.
What are the recurring costs?
Replacing the UV bulb every 14 months ($75), replacing sediment filter every 30 days ($3.50) and replacing the activated carbon filter every 90 days. ($10)
What's the most important thing to remember when designing my system?
The inlet on your collection tank has to be lower than the lowest downspout on your collection surface. When siting your tank, you also need to keep in mind the considerable weight of water--more than eight pounds per gallon. This means that a 10,000-gallon tank that's full of beautiful rainwater weighs 80,000 pounds. You want this big monster sitting somewhere flat, smooth, and, ideally, a little soft...
FAQ's
How-to Book and Video
Quick Costs
Catalog
<<End Excerpt>>
Concerning water rights, if one owns the house and land, the rain that falls upon it is all yours.
Joined: Jan 07, 2005 Posts: 139 Location: Mpls, MN, USA
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject: "Water is the next oil"
From what reading I've done, water is the next oil.
Globalised water privatization is seen by many as no different than the privatisation of oil or natural gas.
I've read that oil billionaire T. Boone Pickens has founded Mesa Water Company in 1999. He plans to be the one to obtain water from the Oglala aquifer and pipe water to Dallas, Houston, and other major cities in the South and SW USA.
(I think I read this on EnergyBulletin awhile back I could not access Mesa Water's webgpage, but a quick google of "mesa Water" yielded a couple of articles about Mesa's activities -- Boone Pickens seems pretty pleased with the project.)
There is no relationship between money and time, money and food, money and earth, money and minerals, money and air, money and water.
We have created a culture which can only understand in terms of money. Everything will be monetised, including human genes and human life.
Slavery has been making a slow comeback..... wage slaves will soon be thankful for a glass of water and a crust of bread three times a day, eh?
Clean fresh water is getting scarce. Shall we all look for "peak water"? Are we there yet?
-- pedaling for peace and ecojustice -- Gary _________________ pedaling for peace and ecojustice -- Gary
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:05 am Post subject:
Matt Savinar has posted this request at LATOC: "If anybody out there has knowledge of how to get as "water-self sufficient" as possible while still living in the suburbs, city, or a small apartment and and would like to
write an article about how to do it on the cheap, email me."
"On the cheap"??? Well all I can say is not depending on the local water utility is not easy or cheap. I can only imagine what not depending on fossil fuels will be like. I am proud, however, that the rainwater system enabled me to go seven months without the water utility before the drought kicked in. It hasn't rained but perhaps a half an inch in over two months, (currently over 33 days without rain, and none forecasted, and now over a four inch deficit so far this year.)
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.
The answer to the question "Can you live without indoor running water?" is simple: you'll have to. The passing of abundant oil is not shaping up to be a soft landing for those with the fattest asses. And in this world, we all know which nation leads the way in obesity. Contrast this with the image of slender villagers carrying water casks on their heads, and how their food supply tends to be very local: this will be the envy of U.S. consumers caught short.
You can live without functional plumbing, but you cannot live without water. Some indoor plumbing may work after the energy crisis hits with all its might. But, as this report endeavors to warn, the water in your outdoor environment -- such as it is -- will be what you live on (or that doesn't allow you to live at all). What a discovery for the nature deniers to experience. Will frightened hoards be the rule in U.S. cities rather than the exception?
The average amount of water consumed per capita in the U.S. is 183 gallons a day (1990; U.S. EPA). This reflects public water supply usage, and it's twice as high in the western U.S. as in the east. One reason is that irrigation uses 81% of water in the nation. Problems with irrigation: huge energy demand for pumping; drawdowns of ancient aquifers, and salinization. "
<<End excerpt>>
I'm way below the average use stated above (183 gal/day). I use less than 100 gal/day.
All the irrigation from my rainwater system uses no electricity, just gravity.
Joined: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 1207 Location: western Wisconsin
Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Using flow reducing shower heads and being willing to take shorter showers, installing 1 gallon flush toilets, washing dishes in a dishpan and rinsing in another dishpan instead of rinsing with running water, not running the water while washing up or brushing teeth, not irrigating the garden, but mulching instead, or storing rainwater for irrigation, are all things that we do to cut our water usage. We also either use a wringer washer and double rinse tubs (using about 30 to 40 gallons of water to do all of the laundry) or take the laundry to a laundromat. I estimate that our household of 4 or 5 (varies from time to time) adults uses 100 to 150 gallons of water a day, more in hot weather when we drink more, less in winter when some of us don't shower every day. My estimation is based on actual observations of how many showers, length of showers, number of times the dishes are done, etc. I have actually measured the amount of water used to do dishes, used per minute of shower, etc. Some days we use much less water for various reasons. For years we lived with an outside hand pump for water, and I can tell you that if you are pumping by hand and carrying buckets of water into the house, you will use less water yet.
We could use less water than we do now, without noticeably affecting our standard of living, with a little more effort at avoiding waste.
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Rainwater from Emily
PeakOiler wrote:
As an update since I'm back on the rainwater system, I have only used the city water 3 weeks out of the last 27.
Another update:
I plumbed another 1,550 gallon tank last Saturday. I am up to 6,200 gallons of capacity. Just in time too. Over the last week or so, Central Texas has been getting some much-needed rain. Keep those tropical disturbances coming! I had to use the newest tank to catch some overflow from the other three 1,550 gallon tanks, so I am at about 80% capacity. That's enough to last three months without any rain, and even Central Texas rarely goes that long without rain.
So, I've only used city water for the house three weeks since ca. December 15th, 2004.
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Rainwater from Emily
Quote:
As an update since my house is back on the rainwater system, I have only used the city water 3 weeks out of the last 34.
I am getting closer to quitting the city water service.
I am also working on a "Rainwater Collection" essay for Matt Savinar.
Digging up all those old receipts to give a very accurate estimate of a rainwater collection system "on the cheap" for homeowners is taking more time than I thought!
I did spread the ca. $4000 investment over two years after all...
In spite of a rain deficit of about 4 inches here in Central Texas, I currently only have about 4000 US gallons collected.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1485 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
I've been looking at rainwater capture for our large garden and establishing 24 fruit and nut trees. We have a friend who runs a vineyard who says he will give us all the old wine barrels we want, but he's concerned that the leaching of old wine residue back into the rainwater will render it unusable.
1. Is the use of old wine barrels discouraged because of old wine residue 'ruining' the water for irrigation purposes?
2. If not, is the hassle of hooking up 6+ barrels worth it vs. buying a 500+ gallon tank?
If the answer to 1. is 'no', I might even have a 'hybrid' system, where I buy a 500 gallon tank for one section of the yard where the garden and most trees will be, and they put in a couple of wine barrels for the other side of the house where the rest of the trees will be.
We also have sheep, and I'd like to find out if I can capture rainwater for them off the barn roof into wine barrels.
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