Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: [Transportation] Motorcycles & scooters
So, alot of people that I have talked to say that they want to buy a hybrid car, but either can't afford one or the waiting list is too long.
What many people don't even know is that you can buy a motorcycle or a scooter for 1/4 the cost of a hybrid car, and it will get the same or better gas milage.
For instance, most 250cc motorcycles get around 70 mpg, and cost around $3000. For many, I think as a short term preparation for the days of $7 gas, learning to ride a motorcycle would be an affordable way of transport.
If you live in an urban area and most of the roads are 35mph or less, you can also consider getting a scooter. Scooters can be as small as 50cc's right on up to ones that are as big as motorcycles. There are 50cc scooters available right now for between $1000-3000 that will get 80-100 mpg.
I live in the suburbs of Washington, DC. Yeah, I know, not the best place to be, but hey, it's where I am. Back in March I bought a 200cc scooter that gets on average about 68 mpg and can do about 80 mph on the highway (it's technically a motorcycle). With the helmut, mods, & taxes, etc. it cost me around $5,000. That's 1/4 the cost of a hybrid. I can fit like 4-5 bags of groceries in the storage underneath the seat and in the small trunk that fits onto the back. Because of it, I now only drive my car when absolutely necessary.
Anyways, my point is that if you really want to get a fuel efficient vehicle, there are cheaper alternatives out there to hybrids.
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 434 Location: Berkeley CA
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:32 pm Post subject:
Don't forget there are battary powered scooters. They seem pretty cheap to operate, some dosn't go that fast. All you need to do is recharge batteries at night, it should draw household currents and shouldn't be expensive. This could be an advantage as gas prices go up. Although electricity cost would go up too, I don't think it's going to go up nearly as fast as gas. Some electric scooters are pretty cheap, like around $300.
Yeah, those are neat too. I think electric scooters and motorcycles could be huge in the market in the next decade. Already where I live, 50cc scooters are immensely popular with the Hispanic community. With gas prices going up, I've seen lots of people out on their motorcycles.
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: Scooter
What did you get exactly (make/model) for your 200cc 80mph 68mpg scooter? I agree now is a good time to learn how to ride a motorbike, I'm learning on an 80cc Honda. I also hope to get the license (required in California). Weather and road conditions are definitely an issue; luckily in California this isn't a problem most of the year.
Interesting that you see more people riding motorbikes - there's no noticeable change here, the SUV is still king in my area. Maybe people are rich enough that they don't care about the price of gas here. They'll probably give up their SUVs only when there are actual shortages and/or gas rationing.
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject: Electric Scooters
O yeah, any specifics on electric scooters? My web searches keep turning up things that aren't quite what I was expecting. Scooter seems to have no fixed definition:
1. 3-4 wheeled powered chairs, like you see for elderly or handicapped people. Not what we are talking about here for a transportation alternative.
2. Skateboards with handles and motors, you ride them standing up - again, not what we are talking about.
3. Electric powered bicycles, similar to mopeds but perhaps without the pedals. Viable as a transportation alternative. Possibly not subject to motor vechicle requirements, a definite plus since you can ride them on sidewalks and such. Only one I've seen is the eGO-2, are there other similar ones?
4. Electric powered 2-wheelers of construction similar to the infamous Italian "Vespa" gas-powered scooters. Viable as a transportation alternative - would probably have to meet motor vechicle requirements e.g. turn signals, headlight, rear light, etc. Do such things exist?
5. Near-motorcycle 2-wheelers; I have seen some 250cc+ gas scooters that meet this description but nothing electric.
Think of tiny cars, often with three wheels, powered by engines you'd otherwise find on motorscooters and mopeds. Some of the designs are just plain cool and could make a comeback on that basis alone (plus or minus the risk-management nazis and their endless paperwork...).
In California, mopeds don't require licensing etc. below a certain size, I think 80 cc. The state DMV definition of motorcycle is 2 or 3 wheels. So you have a moped-size engine on a 3-wheeled frame, it's still a moped. Now if you build an aluminum body frame and attach aluminum body panels, what you have should still be a moped: no license, insurance, registration, etc.
Now wouldn't it be nice if someone made an 80-cc diesel motor...? You could practically build a little PHEV with that.
I live in Virginia. One of our maintenance guys rides a little Yamaha Vino through rain, wind, and snow, so don't listen to that "can't use it when it's cold out" BS.
I mean, yeah, it sucks to ride in the cold and the wet, and I would never ride it when there is ice on the ground, but if a our little Salvadorian janitor can ride his 50cc scooter to work all year round, I don't see any reason why I can't.
But still, even if you're riding a cycle or a scooter 10 months out of the year, that is still far more economical than 12 months of driving a car.
Gekgo scooters (based out of FL I think) sells electric powered scooters that are street legal:
They sell some gas powered ones too, mostly Chinese made. If you're looking to get a gas powered scooter, I'd recommend Honda, Yamaha, or Aprillia. All three are a bit more expensive, but they are far more reliable. For the money, I've heard that the Aprillia 50cc scooters get something like 100 mpg.
In most states, you do not need a motorcycle license if the scooter is 50cc's or under. If it's above 50cc's, most states will require you to hold a Motorcycle license; which really isn't that hard to get. Oh, and if it's under 50cc's, you don't need to insure it either. They count it as a moped.
We have a pretty big Latino community where I live, and scooters are unbelievably popular amongst them these days for obvious reasons. I've also noticed quite a few scooters on the road in Arlington VA and in Washington DC, so that's something to be said. Yeah, I still see bastards driving their Hummers, but it's good to see that there are people out there driving alternatives.
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 250 Location: California
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:49 pm Post subject: Aprilia
Thanks, Y. I looked at those, but as a rank beginner I felt more at ease with a lighter bike and ended up getting an 80cc Honda. Here in California you do need an M1 or M2 license to ride it on the streets (I have a learner's permit now). I realize you can ride these things in adverse weather conditions, but it doesn't look like much fun, and in my case with very limited skills it could be quite dangerous! If I like it and assuming I get the permanent license, I may trade up to a bike in the same class as yours next year.
Lately I've been seeing a few segways on the streets/sidewalks. They run in the $4000 neighborhood and can go up to 12 mph. Probably more of a passing fancy than any kind of alt. transport.
The other day I saw a guy put putting up the street on his bike. Apparently he fitted his old mountain bike with a lawnmower engine or something. It was kind of funny, because he was still pedaling. The engine was super loud too.
I've ridden a motorcycle in a foot of snow, it can definitely be done. It was a Honda CB650 1980, and it did a fine job. You have to plant your feet on either side in the snow and you won't be going fast, but it can be done.
Not recommended, though.
Riding in the rain is very doable, though slow. I get about 40MPG on my bike and have no plans on trading it in anytime soon. At 40MPG I can go to town and back in one gallon. When gas gets to $10/gal I'll make fewer trips.
Joined: May 23, 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:47 am Post subject:
One thing to keep in mind - road maintenance is probably going to get worse post peak as cash starved road authorities are unlikely to pay for the usual amounts of expensive ashphalt.
Many scooters come with tiny little tyres. One pothole could leave you with a serious repair bill. They also tend not to have good fuel range, which could be important post peak.
If you want a motorbike, get a real one. _________________ The purpose of human life revolves around an endless need to extract ever increasing amounts of carbon out of the ground and then release it into the atmosphere.
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