[Food] Production - Goats & Sheep

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1304

Forgive me if this is has been brought up before Smile

I'm sure it, like everything else has been discussed in one thread or another...

But, to those of you who raise dairy goats...

I've been offered a currently milking 2 year old Nubian doe, and her kid, a wether (also full Nubian) for $125. For both of them. I have to let the seller know this week, or the goats go the sale barn Sad

. I know its a heck of a deal price-wise, but I have other concerns. (they are not, to the best of my knowledge, registered) I am a complete newbie with goats - but I have raised sheep before. I've learned much through the mistakes I made with them Sad

(unfortunately), but there is much I need to learn, and could use advice.

First I have to see if it's possible economically for us. I need to know what other additional start up costs I'll have to pay, excluding building a shelter, at first.

For a temporary shelter, I'll have access to a barn my grandmother kept katadhin sheep in before she died in 1998. It's been a few years since any animals have been housed there, so it is in some need of minor repairs. But it's weather tight and made for animals about the size of a goat, so I think it will do fine for now. Though I'd rather have them closer to my house, we'll be able to house them there until we are able to build housing and put up fencing here. Grandma's house is about 1/4 mile down the road.

I'm assuming we'll keep them there until we're able to save up the money or scrounge the materials we'll need to build a shelter here. What are the requirements for goat housing? I've seen some very well done housing at http://fiascofarm.com/goats , but I don't have anywhere near the kind of money it would take to build such a structure, much as I might love to have one. So, what can I get away with for now (warm weather), that I could add to as needed when cooler weather approaches?
I want it definitely to be secure from predators, as I've had the unfortunate experience of dogs killing several sheep I had several years ago (at a different place). Any creative construction ideas to save money? (I'm thinking pallets Smile

)...

As for milking itself, what do I need for home dairying? I've read that you must use stainless steel. Is this true? If so, that seems like it would be an expense, as I don't have it at present. What other items are essential to have from day one? Any ideas of the cost? or, places to barter or get equipment cheaply?

Finally, what do you feed your goats, and what do you estimate that your monthly expense would be in buying feed, supplements, etc.

Sorry if I ask too much Smile

, but I've got to let this lady know if I want the goats in the next couple days... I'd really love to get them, but honestly don't know if we'll be able to afford to maintain them, even with the added benefit of the dairy we'll receive. I'd love for someone to convince me that we can Smile

.

Help??? Smile

(and thanks!!)
Kathy

RonMN · Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:

We had a goat when i was little, but darned if i know anything about milking them.

Personally i wouldn't jump into this if i were you...i don't know about "milking" but i do know it has to be done EVERY DAY (maybe twice a day with goats) and ya CAN'T miss one day!

Then there may be some kind of "process" to make the milk ok to drink...i've heard stainless steal as well, but i dont think that is all that much money...however the sterilizing of that pot every day could get to be a hassel.

We would also pay to store the goat for winter because what we had wouldn't cut it for a Minnesota winter for poor little raisen Smile

I'm just saying...think before you leap! Maybe it'd be better to grow corn & trade it for milk & cheese.

DomusAlbion · Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject:

I would say get these two.

My wife raised Nubians at one time and we will again once our homestead is established. The Nubian is a good general purpose goat that is mild mannered and calm. It's both an excellent milk goat and a good meat animal as well.

Herself wants to cross the Nubians with Boars as the Boar is a bit thicker and gives better meat.
_________________
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett

"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock

Shannymara · Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 10:51 pm Post subject:

I plan to purchase a couple of Nubians this year. I've never owned goats so I am also a complete newbie, but I can give you one tip that might be helpful:

We have a lot of coyotes around here, and a friend of mine who runs an organic farm in OK has confirmed that they will definitely go after goats. It occurred to me that a donkey might be a good protector. Donkeys usually hate dogs and coyotes and will attack them. After I thought of this, I looked around and saw that many of the people around here who have big goat herds do in fact keep a donkey with them. Of course, that would add one more mouth to feed.

I've got the Storey book on dairy goats and it's pretty good, as far as information on feeding, fencing, etc. I think good fencing is pretty important for goats. They aren't as picky about food as cows. Also, I guess you are probably aware that goat's milk doesn't separate much on its own, so if you want to have lots of cream you will need a separator.

I drink so much milk that it will definitely be worth the expense for me to have goats even if I have to buy all the feed (which I plan to avoid as much as possible). At present I pay $6 per gallon for organic milk, and I go through at least a half gallon per day - and that's not counting butter, cheese, yogurt and cream!

DomusAlbion · Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject:

Shannymara,

I've heard that llamas are also a good companion animal for goat and sheep herds and that they will protect them from coyotes.
_________________
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett

"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock

Pops · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:08 am Post subject:

Aha!

I wondered why there were llamas at the goat and sheep sale!
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Make a plan and work it:

ncgoatgirl · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 46 Location: NC

Some questions I'd ask:
-Are they CAE-free? (You don't want to start a herd of dairy goats with a CAE-positive doe!)
-Why is she getting rid of them?
-How much milk does the doe give? I would also take a look at her udder, and see if you think it has the structure for long-term milk production.

$125 is a good deal, but it's not a fantastic deal, so make sure the doe is a decent one!

It sounds like you've got good shelter. Fencing would be a good thing to look at: if you're not fencing a huge area, I would use 16' long stock panels (I think in some places they call them hog panels). That's the only fence that keeps our Nubians in (or out)---though we have one doe who can jump them as gracefully as a deer!

Stainless steel is ideal for milk; for the milk from one doe, a stainless cooking pot would work fine. You will need to strain it, though.

Here's an excellent online resource: Hoegger's Supply Company
Also try eBay for supplies!

We feed our milkers whole corn, whole oats, sunflower seeds (in the hull) and sometimes alfalfa pellets. We are not, however, aiming for big production. You may want to find out what this doe is eating, and feed her that, gradually weaning her to whatever you want to be feeding her. And you'll want a mineral supplement.
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ncgoatgirl
http://moonmeadow.blogspot.com

ncgoatgirl · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 46 Location: NC

Oh---I forgot: the only way it is possible for us to keep goats (or any other small livestock) in these coyote-rich mountains is our Great Pyrenees-cross LGD. We were without one for a short while, and we lost goat kids, sheep (grown and lambs), and chickens (14 in one night!). We couldn't do it without Fionn---he may be the most valuable animal on the farm!
_________________
ncgoatgirl
http://moonmeadow.blogspot.com

DomusAlbion · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:58 am Post subject:

goat girl,

It would be very instructive to hear more of your experience with your goats. How does the dog take to the goats and the reverse? It looks like you keep nubians. How do you protect the things you want to keep growing, like your garden?

I would like to hear anything you can share. Thanks.
_________________
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett

"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1304

ncgoatgirl · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 46 Location: NC

Pops · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject:

The Great Pyrenees I’m told, are best when never treated as anything other than a sheep.

There are lots of kennels in this part of the world; I told my wife that I would like a herding dog for my birthday, even though we only have a small place.

The donkey thing does have me in trouble again however – thanks Shanny, LOL! My wife has a thing about Eore and as we (following Kathy as always) were thinking of a milk goat, and it seems the suggestion of a Livestock Guard Donkey has attained a place on the budget sheet. Don’t know where the cattle dog fits.

BTW thanks to Kathy for the thread (prefix thing is perfect) and goatgirl for posting her experience - we'll certainly need it.

Livestock guard dogs (doesn’t consider donkeys that I can see) :
http://www.lgd.org/
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Make a plan and work it:

seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2022 Location: Arkansas

I'll chime in here bc I'm a big dog lover. If you are going to buy a dog for any reason, make sure you pick a breed suited for you climate! Most of the shepherding dogs originated in Europe, which is far cooler than most places in the U.S. For example, I live in Arkansas and have owned numerous mastiffs, which in theory are also a good flock protectors. However, the mastiff is not good in warm climates like Arkansas, and would suffer greatly if left outside in Arkansas heat and humidity to protect a flock. So, at least in my part of the world, a dog like a mastiff or even a long haired pyrenese would not fair well. Down here, a better dog for shepherding would be any of the typical hunting dogs, which have no love of coyotes - nor do pigs (pigs hate coyotes). I know farmers here use dogs like the Rhodesian Ridgback which is virtually impervious to weather extremes, insects, and very protective. Just, check out the suitability of the climate on a dog before you put them out somewhere in the hot sun.

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1304

Seahorse, I agree completely.
I've wondered about that, since I'm in Arkansas too, and it does get awfully hot and humid here. I've seen several pyrenees with goats, but I always thought it was far too hot for those long haired dogs to be out.

Guard animals is something I'm going to have to give a lot more thought to.

Goatgirl,
Well, not sure yet - but I'm leaning toward yes Smile

. I'll let you know in the next couple days. Gotta go check out the barn and fencing and see what all we need. Thanks again,
Kathy

Shannymara · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject: